Thank you Melody for bringing wider attention to this atrocity!
Folks might be interested in learning more about the gatherings
in Brisbane and Yepoon in a week or two. Go to peaceconvergence.com.au and have a look at the incredible
organisation behind this peaceful protest. There is also a peacetrain from Melbourne to Brisbane, you will find details on
the website. There will be 10's of thousands of people protesting. Did you know also that these 'whore' games will be
using live ammunition containing depleted uranium, which has been
proven to cause all types of cancers, and shocking birth defects in
newborns. The Ray Bradbury film 'Blowin' in the Wind' is compulsory
viewing on the topic of DU in weaponry. Lesley

OK, so you're a raging granny and you're raging. Fair enough - go for it.

However in my humble opinion, the best OLO contributions identify solutions as well as problems. I'm having trouble finding your solution here, Melody. Would you like the ADF to train somewhere else? If so, where? Would you like them not to train alongside the forces they regularly work with around the world? How would that help? Would you like them to conduct more environmental assessment? No live fire training?

In fact, other than recognising that you don't much like the ADF, I'm struggling to see your point, and I'm utterly lost about what you expect the government to do about it.

The sad reality is, whether we agree with the war in Iraq or not, Australian men and women are going there to fight. And they need the best training we can provide them, so that they come back alive, and so that they don't make inexperienced operational decisions which result in things like civilian casualties. they need to train to the very best of standards. If not in the current areas, then where?

Anthony Marinac might then line up behind Melody Kemp as one who appears to offer no solutions.

Maybe diplomats and would-be warriors who survey the battlefields of Iraq and the training grounds of Shoalwater Bay, mostly from their offices, could be included in the exercises. Say a yachting trip and a few menacing interdictions, to give them a distant notion of what it's like for a civilian family to have their house collapse on them in a heap of rubble.

Who knows, it might even put some spunk into their vague recollection of the idea that war is the consequence failed diplomacy.

I have no doubt that soldiers need training, but I think diplomats, who we trust equally with our lives, need more training. Maybe a bit of war games excitement would help Alexander Downer focus more actively on waging peace. Then again, I doubt he has steely nerves of a Douglas MacArthur. Alex might lose the plot, altogether.

And while we all stand in line (for I have contributed a most unlikely "solution"), turn your sense of humour loose on this:

"The Reliable Replacement Warhead (RRW) program was set up by [US]Congress to modernize the aging U.S. stockpile. The two labs were competing to replace a warhead that currently sits atop missiles in U.S. submarines. Some of the bombs are more than 30 years old, and scientists can't detonate them to see how well they've held up. Although the focus is reliability, RRW is also intended to create safer, more secure, and greener weapons."
(from Science Magazine 9 March 2007 page 1348)

"Greener" nuclear weapons!

Sustainable technology for Shoalwater Bay?

You can certainly tell the priorities of politicians - just follw the money. It certainly dooesn't seem peace is top of the agenda.

"War is Peace".

If I were a totally incompetent cruising yachty, or had just landed from the moon, I may be able to find my way into one of the small live firing areas of Shoalwater Bay, during an exercise. Its unlikely, as they are in very yacht unfriendly areas of what is a rather boat unfriendly area at any time. I would also have had to, somehow avoid hearing the barrage of advertising, [air & print], & miss all the talk between the yachties on their SSB radios.

However, should I manage it, I, personally, would be grateful to the army, if they spent the time, & effort, sending a helicopter, & crew to warn me, of the fact. Like most, I would also enjoy the close up inspection of one of our war birds. When a friends yacht was circled by one of these helicopters, the kids were still raving about it, 6 months later, a fact, the helicopter crews are well aware of.

Of course, if I were a long haired radical rat bag lefty, I would find it the perfect oppotunity for a bit of a misinformation campaign.
This would give a silly twit from Laos, [which would damn near fit in Shoalwater bay], an opportunity to get some anti defense force rubbish in print.

I don't know weather to feel disgusted or sorry for these people, but you've got to feel sorry for the people of Laos.

HasBeen - Of course the kids on the yacht would be talking about it for months, they will probably talk about it for the rest of their lives.
To provide a solution from using depleted uranium in the weaponry, would be a start. If you had a baby born with three arms, and only one eye, you may change your mind. Australia does not need defending.....So many War Games, So much Fear, so many Lies, so much
Waste. This whole scenario got out of hand after Sept. 11 2001.
I refuse to call it (9/11) I do not see Sweden, Switzerland, Norway,
Denmark, or Finland Going to War. or having Games. What do they know that we don't? Is it all something to do with non-renewable resources? These War Games (which are insanity), are just another symptom of the terminal illness humans have wreaked upon this Planet.

re;
I don't know weather to feel disgusted or sorry for these people, but you've got to feel sorry for the people of Laos."

My word.

But not because of the presence of one outspoken leftwing ex-pat.

No, I would pity the Lao people for having to live with the consequences of the secret war on Laos, waged by the US military from 1964 to 1973. An estimated 90 million individual cluster bomblets were released by American aircraft during that period. 30 years later, an estimated 10 to 20+ million unexploded bomblets remain.

Laotians are still getting killed or maimed by bomblets in on their land; their fields, rice paddies, schoolyards, roads and paths, in their trees, under their homes, etc etc.

UXO clearance efforts in Laos are ongoing, of course. They are paid for, pragmatically, by developers looking for profit and also by charities and ordinary individuals who are stunned by the enormity of consequences of that particular world-class failure of diplomacy, and want to repair some of the damage in a spirit of charity.

Maybe we should also send our diplomats for a guided tour of the uncleared and unmarked areas of the Plain of Jars.

Sir Vivor, if they did take your trip, they would probably have a ball, as long as they didn't go too deep into Shoalwater Bay. It realy is an unpleasant place for small underpowered yachts, due to the very strong tides. The fact that so few people live in the entire area confirms its lack of attraction.

However, the interaction between the defense personal, & the yachtsmen is very cordial, & often, fun. There are many yachtsmen who have been most grateful for the assistance offered by these defense people, in time of need.

One funny incident occured in the late 70s, during an exercise, when a bunch of about 8 of us passed through the area.
We were spread over about 50 miles of ocean, heading for Island Head Ck. One of the yacht sailed inside Dome Island, & was amazed to find a navy patrol boat, snugged in against the island, & camouflaged to look like part of the island. We discovered, later, that he was pretending to be a guided missile destroyer, & he was hiding, waiting for the US aircraft carrier to get in range, for him to rush out & sink it, in a blaze of glory.

Unfortunately, for him, the yachty got on the radio to tell all of us to come & have a look.

The US navy were monitoring the local chat frequency. The carrier dispatched a flight of strike aircraft, which arived only 15 minutes later. The patrol boat was "sunk" &, in the way of these things, was out of the exercise for 24 hours.

We were very sorry to have spoiled the young officers daring ploy. It was quite brave, too. If these young officers scratch their first command, they tend to find themselves as officer for sea cadets, in Alice Springs for the rest of their short career.

AnthonyMarinac, you really are clueless. A citizen is highlighting the problem, which I will describe below. Why should they provide a solution? Citizens aren't necessarily geniuses, nor are they paid to think of solutions, and they certainly aren't provided with the information or powers to do so. If I say the pipe is broke in the street, I tell the government to fix it. I don't have to become an electrician or plumbing engineer with a 3-5 year degree, before I submit the complaint. That is ASININE.

If the below description is true, it's all too obvious the reason why. You have a total disregard for the environment they choose to do this in. It holds no significance for them at all. As an Australian I find that deeply offensive.

"Welcome to Shoalwater Bay on Australia’s tropical coast, close to Rockhampton and gateway to the magnificent fringing reefs and islands of Australia’s north. The bay could be the poster child for a tropical holiday campaign, with its azure waters, secluded “let’s go in the nuddie” beaches, and proximity to the famed Great Barrier Reef."

So, problem is in my quick glance at the story:
1 the pristine, fragile environment is being used as by the military like a child uses a sandpit
2 this will go on for years if not decades

I'll throw in another. Local residents potentially affected when a drunk US marine rapes someone then leaves without any punishment under a one-way, unilateral agreement that favours the US only.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193517,00.html
"The defendants belong to the 31st Marine Expeditionary Force stationed on the southern Japanese island of Okinawa. They had finished counterterrorism maneuvers with Filipino troops when the alleged rape occurred in a van at the former U.S. Subic Bay naval base near Olongapo city, west of Manila."

http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~pyonpyon/nago/base/rape0116.htm
"The curfew was imposed one month after the rape of a 12-year-old Okinawa schoolgirl by three U.S. servicemen in September 1995. In May, an insurance saleswoman in her 20s was also hit on the face with a hammer to death...........U.S. bases have been the hotbed of vice, crimes and accidents involving American servicemen for the last 55 years. A statistical survey shows that for years after Okinawa was annexed to Japan, the number of crimes involving the U.S. military and civilian personnel exceeded nealy 5,000, including twelve murder cases; an incredibly high rate of lawbreaking. Rape crimes that were sent to the prosecutor's office have accounted for up to 110 cases so far."

Make no mistake. American servicemen are extremely dangerous, untrustworthy and don't hold to the same principles as Australians do by any means.