Please get to the point, most everyone, you have proven you have the capacity.

Note that Iran and the US have got together to solve a problem that not solved will help no one.

As with Global Warming, think of our great-grandkids, remember there will be those among them who will lay caustic blame on those who wasted so much time splitting historical hairs rather than getting to the nitty gritty - which does not mean blowing the Middle East to bits with nuclear rockets.

If in the mood to pray, give praise to the Sermon on the Mount which in its simplicity, says it all, particularly regarding forgiveness to our enemies.

BLOWBACK - Colonialist Intrusion justifies Terrorism.

There was an increasing hope after the end of WW2 that the days of colonialism were numbered.

1. First exemplified by the British withdrawing from India and Burma and former possessions in Africa.

2. Change was also so evident in the forgiveness of the people of Germany and Japan, and the adoption of the Marshall Plan to rapidly get them back on their feet again.

3. It was a different story in the Middle East, where the code was broken in the early stages, with the US out to get rid of Mossadek in Iran, ousting him by calling him a Stalinist puppet, later replacing him with Pahlevi, who became the puppet Shah.

4. Obviously with the major powers, valuable contraband in the shape of oil was now occupying industrial leader’s minds.

5. Hatred against America’s industrial greed, thus saw the Iranian Mullahs revolt against the Shah in the late 1970s, the US embassy staff held prisoner for more than a year.

6. The US saw its chance by backing Iraq in its attack against Iran in 1981, the war lasting over eight years with the Iranians successful.

7. Much has happened since with hatred of Israel’s friendliness with America, causing Saddam of Iraq to change his allegiances, even changing his currency from the dollar to the Euro.

The point now, is what can we do about it when it has been pretty well proven that the Islamists are justified in their hatred of powerful Western interests taking over their territory?

Many of us oldies are wondering what sort of world we are heading for?

It seems what we need is a far stronger and fairer UN, not run by a unipolar US, with American appointments heading the World Bank and other important global positions, with the head of the UN from a smaller nation like Japan whose Constitution holds US controlled political safeguards, the UN leader looking too much like a US puppet.

Jesus wept. Ol"bushy when ya bought into the commie doctrine ya didn't do it by halves did ya.

"There is a rising tension between the traditional guardians of Muslim orthodoxy and a new crop of secular educated Muslims."

This finding runs parallel to Judeo-Christians faiths. The Jews post the Temple State were in turmoil. Christianity post the Enlightenmight and the Great Divergence has seen Science and a literate drive a wedge between the Churches and the Secular. Reinterpretation came into play, teachings from the OT transitioned from literal to allogorical. The role of the supernatural has eased. In the nineteenth century, the very existence of God came into question. [In conservative America there as been a right-wing turnaround.

As for Islam, in the eighth to eleventh centuries, enlightenment and tolerence were more evident than in the emerging West. In this frame, the West would not be the West, had not Greek thought reached it via the more sophisticated Islamic society [from Muslim Spain] of the time [c. 1100]. Unfortunately, Western progress was slow owing to the Christian Church on two fronts. Christianity stood in opposition knosis and non-Church interpretations of fundamental existence. Moreover, Christianity raised Crusades against Islam.

While it is true that after its foundation, Islam aggressively expanded into Africa and Western Europe, it is also true by the nine century, the advanced Muslims were being afforted by barbarous Wsterners. Herein, regrettably, Islam regressed to kin altruism and patrimonalism under the imams.

Monothesism is dangerous where there are two civilzations and two monotheistic posits. Leaders can leverage this situation too, including, for oppunitistic advantage. Polythesism is civil and accepting. Given the Islamic and Western situtation, the Ancient Egpytians would have developed a theocrasaic composite ( e.g., Amon-Ra.

Were Christians to accept Jesus as a prophet and Muslins a prophet of equal status to Mohammed, we would might find reconcilation; but, this picture is improbable. The Latin and orthodoxy churches barely talk and these have the same God

...Consquently, we must look more towards a model of the secularisation of Islam and the further secularisation of Christianity [including fewer Born-Again US Presidents]; wherein, Church and State are clearly separated for Muslim and Christian, alike.

The objective of War is peace under new terms. Secularisation would seem an apt objective under continuing globalisation. Mutualism is found under the umbrella of secularisation, which can be commonly adopted by all. One can still render -privately- unto their own prophet or god.

Cowboy Joe

Pale replies

I will answer your questions.

[1] We have observed by being in contact on a regular basis with Islamic Councils.

2 We have seen some not acknowledging the chosen Muslim leaders of Australia.
Let me put it this way- The leaders chosen by the larger majority of Muslim people and recognized by the Government would not approve of mistreating young boys.

3 My point was we as Australians and also the Government need to get behind these leaders and make sure other less respectful people do not win their fight to take over. This is what we mean about one Islamic council leader.
If you look at the opening of this thread and read that persons comments you will see several things Cowboy-

A That Mr Ali took the time to post on the forum.

B That the message is one of great wisdom and peace.

It is this type of Muslim leadership we require and should support.

I have no idea why you would mention PETA Cowboy.

We have no contact with them but acknowledge they have done some good work for animals.
Our difference is we do not oppose people eating meat provided it’s humane from paddock to plate.

I do however know a few Muslim people who are members of PETA There a many vegetarian Muslims also.

I mentioned AWB enquiry because it’s an example of us not understanding contacts and arrangements.

If you put the chosen Islamic leaders of Australia in a far more close working arrangement with the Government and AQIS it would help us ensure we do not see a repeat of the AWB enquiry.

Spare a thought for these people cowboy.
If their leadership is challenged and we do not fully support them how can they battle these leadership challenges alone?
There is great competition for accreditation rights and it IS true that many of those accreditations requirements have changed from one Mosque to another.

Australia requires a National Accreditation for Halal and ‘one clear leader.
I do not agree with AQIS issuing electronic Halal approvals. Too risky.
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