Ameer, although there are emerging schools of thought on how to interpret Islamic texts, there's a major problem that you have not addressed.

The ideological undercurrent which permeates even the mildest, most moderate forms of Islam is one of cultural 'submission'. Even if it is a watered-down, contemporary form of Sharia, there is no true interface between this and democratic Australia.

After spending time with a 'moderate' Imam recently, it became clear that this is not only a fundamental (note: not fanatical) teaching of Islam, but one which is shared by even your average Muslim. The problem is that a denial of this truth is even sanctioned by the Qu'ran.

There is no denying that Islam, as well as all other major cultural groups, has great intellectual merit. However the real issue here is not one of intellect but of ideology.

p.s. Adherents of Dawkins always seem to play nicer in their own little playgrounds of thought. Perhaps they could remain there until the serious discussion is finished. Ta.

Sam said: These same brutal clowns or adherents of the religion of peace will rape a condemned female prisoner so she as a raped woman will not go to their "X" rated paradise. Funny - as is queer - people these inhuman pagan moslems. Regards, numbat

MaNiK_JoSiAh

I would willingly stay in my own “playground” but for one important point. I appreciate that to advance a serious theological argument; you require much learning, much scholarship and much originality of thought. None-the-less theological models no matter how erudite are total lacking in any empirical data.

The theology disciplines do not require careful observation of nature. Contrast with scientific observations and experiments which are made by curios and enquiring minds. The observations are then synthesised by inductive reasoning into a coherent theory. Instead you take authority from ancient texts of dubious authorship. Texts that are claimed, with out evidence, to be the distilled thoughts and inspiration of a mythical being. An entity you call “God.” Clearly the elaborate constructs of theology have about as much structural integrity as a house of cards.

The intellectual activities of theologians are not benign. As soon as the adherents of a theological school gain political power, their enthusiasts set out to impose their way of life on non believers. Thus according to the dominant religious dogma of the day, we are instructed as to the days we can work, what foods we can and can not eat, when we are allowed to eat and when to fast; who and when we can bonk; the books we can read, the plays or films we can see; the list of inhibitions and tabos are endless. Even worse is the necessity to sit, stand or kneel during periods of interminable boredom, while the priest performs his meaningless and tedious ritual. Chants his “mumbo jumbo” words all to appease a non existent God.

Religion is notorious in coercing non believers. The religions are always stepping out of their “playground.” That is why they deserve to be hit with whatever tool is to hand.

Well said anti-Green. MaNiK (aptly named) wants to shut down the debate to those who who don't share his little fantasies.
Typical of the totalitarian mindset engendered by too much kneeling and muttering.
Religion, Nazism, Communism (and dare I mention "climate change" -the new religion for those who have enough intelligence to see through the old fantasies, but not enough scepticism for the new ones) all have a lot in common.
Still, maybe in another couple of centuries, people like MaNiK will have evolved a little more, and become less dogmatic or even become extinct - let's hope!!

anti green, so religion is not science and science is not religion. wow and it took you what 300 words. watch this! driving is not baking cookies but, baking cookies requires fuel so they are basically the same thing. or how about this one! flying and rappelling require a faith in ones equipment therefore flying and rappelling are both religious pursuits.
the God haters have their dogma firmly grasped in a tight fist of hatred denying others their beliefs while demanding more room to exercise their vilification in the name of science and the human intellect.
thankfully the God haters are equal in numbers as are the religious extremist.

Dear Anti Green

you said:

"As soon as the adherents of a theological school gain political power, their enthusiasts set out to impose their way of life on non believers."

Speaking as a fundamentalist, conservative, evangelical Christian, I have to agree totally with your statement.

Your statement is a very accurate commentary on 'human nature'. In reality, it does not matter if the particular philosophical 'thing' is religious or secular, 'people' tend to act as you have described.

So, I wish to raise what I believe to be an important point or 2.

1/ We know from the history of 'Christendom' of the dangers of 'big' organized 'church'. We have the inquisition, the crusades, and the various religious wars of Europe as testimony to this. So, I feel we are fairly safe from repeating such things, I share your concerns, but only on one level. I would recoil in horror from any idea of a 'State' Church seeking to bolster "adherance" by law.
Implementing certain 'values' democratically is a different matter.

2/ Do the negative examples of Christendom history reflect the foundational values of Christ and the Apostles?
In short.. no, they don't. Jesus founded his church on "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love for one another". He also said "My kingdom is NOT 'of this world'" He then connected this to the fact that His disciples should not take up arms to defend "Him". (I view defense of the State differently-Romans 13:1-5)

3/ Does Militant Islam accurately reflect the founding principles of Quran, Hadith, History and Prophet? yes it does.

This is the problem.
Anti-green, I am participating with Atheists, Jews and evangelicals in a movement to oppose any Islamization of Australia.
In separate activities, our atheist co-workers might be handing out 'The God delusion' by Dawkins, and I might be proclaiming Christ and the Gospel to all who will listen.

But on Islam, we are "one"