I am quite happy to be labelled an agnostic. I also am aware that philosophers since the days of David Hume in the eighteenth century have never been able to fully satisfy themselves on the subject of inductive reasoning.

So I will settle in saying to the purist, you are correct, I can not disprove the existence of a God or Gods. By the same token you can not prove the existence of God. However, I will assert that the probability in favour of the reality of a God is so low as to be of no practical importance. Or as I have quoted before Laplace’s statement, “God is an unnecessary hypothesis.”

Now why then should I concern myself in debating these matters? Especially as there is little chance that either the God people or the non believers will undergo a mind change. The reason is this, religion impinges on how I want to live my life. I refer to the influence of religious leaders on parliamentarians. Notably in such issues, as euthanasia, gay rights, abortion and the current on-line discussion on prostitution.

I am grateful that West Australia is not an Islamic theocracy and I do not have to battle with the arcane problems thrown up by sharia law.

TR,
You have a point there. As I already wrote elsewhere, I might have some insight into the relation between (natural) science and religion, where the dialogue depends essentially on a mutual interpretation of data. You are probably aware of the unprecedented interest that this topic has suddenly attracted in the last decade. That fact probbaly scared also Richard Dawkins into writing his book about the Delusion.

In my opinion, a parallel, similarly mature, understanding of the relation between history and the evolvment of various (Christian) models of Transcendental Reality - i. a. biblical criticism, exegesis, hermeneutics - is still in the coming. No mature Christian today believes that the world was created in six days, exactly as Genesis claims, and only very stubborn Christians have problems with Darwin’s theory. It is not that clear with the bible and the development of doctrines on one hand, and established facts of history (and anthopology) on the other. There are still too many unanswered questions, only simplifying shortcuts, one way or the other.

I am no expert in this field, and, of course, I am aware that all this does not make much sense to him/her who does not believe in the existence of a Transcendental Reality, which I define as that part of reality that is not accessible through (natural) science, and consequently neither by mathematics.

anti-green,
I do not think anybody sees this forum as a vehicle for converting anybody. The way I see it, it is an opportunity to look into the “inside” of people of other faiths (or “nonfaith”) and to learn how other people see my faith from the “outside”.

Pericles.. if Dawkins used Vidals quote as support for his own position, and concurrs, am I out of order in suggesting he needs help?

Back to you later.

LOGIC Have you forgotten the whole idea of Sharia?

Please absorb a contrast. This is how "Islam" is being interpreted in Palestinian areas. (where it is a) a Majority and b)in conflict with your mob)

1/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeAVBYAbn0

I repeat QURAN 9:30 "May Allah destroy them" (Jews and Christians)
I hope you saw and listened to that video!

2/ Christians tortured and murdered in Turkey.

What we witnessed has FOREVER changed our lives! As the body was carried into the courtyard, high upon the shoulders of our Turkish brothers, spontaneous applause burst forth! I leaned over to my national friend and queried, Is this normal for funerals, in your culture? No, he asserted, it’s because he a martyr! As the casket continued its journey toward the front, ethereally beautiful worship music erupted somewhat reminiscent of a Gregorian chant. Then everyone joined together in the singing of Turkish praise songs. However, what followed nearly took our breath away! Approximately ten Turkish leaders proclaimed openly the GOSPEL in front of television cameras, newspaper reporters, police officials, the Deputy Governor of Izmir and several other important officials. FEARLESSLY, yet with GENTLE STRENGTH each shared his faith in CHRIST, and HIS FORGIVENESS of those who had committed the heinous murders! Additionally, they shared that CHRIST had won the VICTORY, and at this very hour the martyrs were standing before the very throne of GOD! Several mentioned that the lives of these men were perhaps the seeds that must be planted in order for a harvest to come forth. One pastor passionately exclaimed, We will spread this message, Gods Word, because we are children of the Word! You may kill us all, but we will spread this message, because we love you and because Jesus loves you! We forgive the attackers, because we too, have been forgiven. Powerful applause, Amens and Hallelujahs erupted from among the scores of nationalities represented there! It was awesome!

>>Pericles.. if Dawkins used Vidals quote as support for his own position, and concurrs, am I out of order in suggesting he needs help?<<

That's my point. "If..."

You quoted out of context, presuming the "if".

It's the same syndrome as "The virginia Uni massacre.. done by a Muslim? 'Ismail X'"

>>Back to you later.<<

If this is your defence, don't bother.

TR,

You quoted:
" Therefore, because these events are so EXTRAORDINARY and UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE according to every single concept of science and rationality the evidence needs to be just as EXTRAORDINARY and OUTSTANDING"

Science translate specific events into a logical, mathemical process on why or how things are happening. Lightening had medieval and spiritual interpretations until research came up with explanation and a method to replicate its generation using rules and mathematics.

Science is not generating new rules but merely a way to find answers and explanations on how and why things are happening in what appeared to be an 'extraordinary event'.
As per my earlier post above when I was in the field of pharmaceutical research, animal telepathy was subject to scientific research and until now the facts are pointing to a) a connection to exchange emotions and thoughts remotely and b) a median than connects these creatures regardless of time and distance.

Let park religions for a while, to claim that God does not exist based on science is a flawed argument. We are just beginning to explore the supernatural (like animal telepathy). Maybe science ina d ecade or so will confirm the existence of a single super energy that connects all creature together and to itself.

Food for thoughts,

Its apparent that the ground to communication is an issue to understand differing views...a greek and chinese without a common language are always limited to what they can impart and gain from each other...and their heritage of cultures/beliefs are so vastly different but fundamentally similar...both believe in worldly/godly power...

Here those who rely mainly on their eyes speak of science; those whom rely mainly on spiritual eye speak of beliefs; and those whom use both speak with a balance of both...

what would help is if people first practice seeing with their spiritual eye(eye of energies)...twig/living plant difference in feeling in above post...try it as its not difficult...and build on it till you also see the world around us for the energies in it and how it flows between each and other......and its little different to say learning a new language and all can do this...

then when ones sees with both, worldly and spiritual eyes at the same thing...I think the debate on god will take us to the next level where we should/need to go...

Sam
Ps~imagine for a moment that you get to a stage of advancement when you can 'see' an evil soul and good soul with certainty...imagine the benefit of this sight...you can then develop way of interacting with both more effectively...and until you try it you cannot know if its possible...unless you dont want people to do this in which case one would try to...hmmm