Poor Oligarch. I don't see any spewing by Anti Green at all. Challenging your fairy tales is just that, a challenge. Seeing you over react tells us all how shaky your beliefs actually are.

Any facts here at all? Any actual evidence of a God? All I see is quotes from books written by men. Not women, just men.

"Dogmatic religion also has a tendency to close off debate because it assumes that all its texts have fallen straight from heaven and are therefore not open to discussion." - TR

This thread shows that dogmatic atheists are just as difficult to engage meaningfully as they perceive theists to be. Many of their views don't seem to be the result of personal reflection, but are just a re-run of Dawkins et al.

To insist that nothing can exist except for the things which can be observed and understood reeks of humanistic arrogance.

To those who accept this view, I would say that the proof is in the pudding. If the Bible is truly given by the inspiration of God, those who read it with an open heart will be transformed by faith in Jesus the Christ. Although this comment may infuriate staunch atheists, it has certainly been my experience.

MaNik
You say "If the Bible is truly given by the inspiration of God, those who read it with an open heart will be transformed by faith in Jesus the Christ." This "if" indicates to me that there is a slight doubt in your mind that this is the case.

Before even reaching this statement, you have to prove the existence of God, and then that the Bible was inspired by this God.

For this to happen, the person concerned has to suspend their reasoning and just believe, based on no evidence.

A previous poster said something about Atheists "hating" God. How can one hate something that doesn't exist?

Neither do Atheists hate religionists. They just hate their proselytising and attempts to impose their beliefs and mores on the rest of humanity.

Beliefs which just cause division and hatred among people and which lead to the terrible consequences that we have seen throughout the centuries. Of course religion is not the only philosophy that has caused such misery. However the more we can be guided by reason and goodwill, the better.

Reckon us OlO's are getting nowhere right now. In fact, it is getting bloody boring, like when a lecturer keeps pausing and looking at his watch.

Three or four days ago it was an interesting discussion, but now it has drifted into the same old elitist punchng Islam in the gut, with anyone game enough to act a bit protective, called the same old fruitcake, or looney leftie.

All this with a Texan two-gun cowboy type former sports executive, still stuck in the White House with most against him, while he prays for the Second Coming as he breaks Constitutional rules.

Please let us get real for a change, not just about more killing, but simply more wisdom and understanding, which is still so easy to find if we became less and less smart-arse

Thanks froggie,
There is no "if" for me, I was just putting the point across in passive terms.

Your premises are not sound:

* "For this to happen, the person concerned has to suspend their reasoning and just believe, based on no evidence." - This has been belted out by atheists and theists for centuries. I'd encourage you to read C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer for some classic Christian agologetics. It is helpful to examine both sides of a coin in order to better appreciate the issues at hand.

* "Neither do Atheists hate religionists. They just hate their proselytising and attempts to impose their beliefs and mores on the rest of humanity." - Many have found the recent activities of fanatical Dawkinites to be more offensive the most abrasive Evangelists.

* "Beliefs which just cause division and hatred among people and which lead to the terrible consequences that we have seen throughout the centuries." - Atheistic ideologies have had some cataclysmic results as well eg Communism.

* "However the more we can be guided by reason and goodwill, the better." Amen. But you seem to be doing what is constantly leveled at Christianity: Claiming reason and goodwill all to yourself.

MaNik,you are clutching at straws.

>>To insist that nothing can exist except for the things which can be observed and understood reeks of humanistic arrogance<<

Nobody here has made this claim. Each of us has the capacity to absorb and accept things that defy logic or are external to it. That we choose not to believe in God does not diminish or invalidate this capability.

Your accusation is as stupid as claiming that the fact that something cannot be "observed and understood" is de facto evidence of its existence.