The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Military myths help nation-building - but is that enough? > Comments

Military myths help nation-building - but is that enough? : Comments

By Tony Jacques, published 24/4/2007

Many of those attending Anzac Day parades have their view of military history formed by popular culture.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All
There is something in this article which needs re-stating:

“If the truth about events so recent is so hard to establish, how much more difficult is it to fully comprehend the talk about wars which were fought decades ago?”

Here is a reality check on Paul Keeting’s unknown warrior speech in Canberra. There was probably a 95% chance that whoever the man was in the casket did not go to war in 1915 to fight for our freedom.

[1] Unlike WW2, no country’s freedom was under threat in August 1914. It was honour which was being challenged after a century-long idiotic arms race which had got out of control which only took the assassination of a nobody to push Europe over the inevitable brink.

[2] The great majority of the volunteer army had in civilian life a hard, boring and low paid job from which there seemed to be no escape.

[3] Hardly anybody could afford overseas travel. Unlike today, the Middle East and even much of rural Europe was little different to what it was in the 18th century. In 1915, travel was a wonderful experience. To the great majority of the volunteer army, here was an opportunity for adventure.

[4] In 1915 clocks and rifles was the only high-tech in rural working class homes. Young men were obsessed with rifles as what young men of today are with computers [and used to be with home motor mechanics in the 1950s to 1990s]. Upon signing up many were heard to say – “When do I get my rifle?”

The poor ignorant young man in the casket was simply a sacrifice to support the ambitions of politicians and generals.
Posted by healthwatcher, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 10:08:38 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
FYI... 'Kokoda' is an incredible waste of 2 hours of your life. Avoid it. Check out 'The Great Raid' instead.
Posted by Grey, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 11:47:03 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There is a very interesting article in the current issue of Dissent Magazine---the title is Independent Histories.

The author discusses how, in recent years, the Department of Veterans Affairs has been taking a very active role in the shaping of how the his-story of war is "taught" and commemorated in schools and the society at large. War is/was good. The article doesnt specifically say so but it is not difficult to imagine where the driving force or directives for this approach comes from. The militarially correct Howard et al.

And then there is this absurd arrogance whereby we (our government) presumes, with typical white man's arrogance, that it has some god given right to interfere with how the Turkish government and people relate to the real estate at Gallipoli.

By the way, whenever I hear Howard open his mouth about the Anzac mythology,I want to puke. Fortunately I seldom if ever watch or listen to the "news" or current affairs programs.
Posted by Ho Hum, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 11:56:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I've had just about enough of the glorification of war. On Anzac day I might just think about the 60,000 Australian military personel who died in WW1. I'm not sure if the word 'heros' will come to mind. 'poor fools', probably wil.
But it's more likely I'll extend my sympathies to the 10 million civiallians who died during world war 1. That might lead me to think of the 46 million who died in WW2. Not to mention the innocent deaths that have come about from our efforts in Vietnam and now Iraq. Where are the memorials for the civillians that may have died at Australian hands? Where is there even a word about civillian casualties in the War Memorial? (ok - they are mentioned, for example - after a few very in depth display rooms at the War Memorial on WW11, the attrocities of the Nazis, japanese agression etc, there is a very small post-script with no details and no numbers: an easy way to sweep under the rug the attrocities caused by the only real use of WMD the world has seen - The two A bomb attacks in Japan).
I could go on. The point I'm trying to make is WAR SUCKS. Army personel are not 'Hero's', I cant see how any man could point a gun at another could be called a hero. Lets not celebrate. Lets commiserate. Let us not forget, but let us not glorify our memories with the aid of hollywood productions, soppy speeches and token gestures.
Posted by ana H, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 8:34:41 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Go Ana. Anzac Day was almost a dying instution with a fair percentage of WW1 veterans refusing to march or join the RSL, which they considered a war mad jingoist bunch of reactionarys, and all they wanted to do was forget the war which unfortunately most of them never did, they also hated war and the glorification of it.
Enter the press and politicians and presto it is now bigger than ever, fuelled by jingoism, spin and the appeal of soppy sentimentalism.
Posted by alanpoi, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 11:43:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just recently in the course of my work I have been researching the lives of some WWI diggers. I have found it rather moving, deciphering a name from a postcard, searching records and discovering a life. Sadly, many ended their lives in the mud on the Western Front at Bullecourt, Ypres, Frommelles, along with nearly 50,000 other Australians.

This research has helped me see these men not as heroes, but as ordinary people. I would urge anyone who wants to know more about ANZAC Day to visit the National Archives http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/recordsearch.html and have a look at some of the 300,000-plus WWI service records now online (be warned, the servers are a bit overloaded). Find a relative, or someone who came from near where you live. You'll get a glimpse of the reality of war. Not very glamorous or heroic, but plenty of humor, pathos and tragedy
Posted by Johnj, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 11:48:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ana h, well said!

defense of the nation begins at cannon shot from shore. military adventures outside that line have largely been in support of ego glorification of presidents, kings, dictators- and prime ministers.

switzerland is the most politically advanced nation on earth. they are the only true democracy i know of. they have also been at peace since the napoleonic wars. this little spit-kit of a country is also so reliable and stable that their currency is used as an international standard. they have championed international peace-keeping efforts with the league of nations and the red cross.

yet they are no one's idea of feeble handwringing wusses. when curtin was begging roosevelt to save oz, the swiss were surrounded by nazis and fascists- no ocean moat in between. but they begged no one. their response was:"step across that line,and you're dead."

the wehrmacht believed them, and were right to do so. unlike australia, the swiss have real patriotism. the country belongs to each citizen, and each male citizen was a highly trained soldier defending a country that truly was 'his'. the swiss don't glorify war, but living in europe taught them that the roman general was right:" if you want peace, prepare for war." but rather than prepare for war, the swiss prepared for defense.

australia is different. with no real control of the major questions confronting society, they don't bother to learn much history or politics, it's useless to them. being ignorant and alienated, they are cattle to the pollies propaganda.

they are 3rd rate people, ruled by 2nd rate politicians- donald horne was on the money there.
Posted by DEMOS, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 8:13:02 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Garbage if it wasn't for their banks the Swiss would have been overrun just like the rest of Euorope.
Posted by alanpoi, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 9:57:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
alanpoi, the german high command disagreed with you.
Posted by DEMOS, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 11:20:10 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi to ALL... *TO DEMOS*
I totally agree with your article, Demos. The Swiss had been building their defenses for years and years. Being a mostly mountainous nation, they introduced and constructed many tunnel systems, in order to ensure and preserve their logistic capability, lest they were invaded.

Further, every able bodied male was required to participate in regular military training (an ongoing event) and was further required to have EASY access to military small arms and appropriate ordinance.

Unlike Australia, we are generally caught short, as the events of 1939 subsequently revealed. But we don't seem to learn too much from history, do we?

There is an old saying..."under a Labor Govt., the military and police forces' (law & order per se.) are generally allowed to decline..."? and,..."under a Liberal Govt., often those very important facilities, are more vigorously supported..."? There's always exceptions I suppose.

Apropos ANZAC day. In my humble view, it should be allowed to quietly 'fade away', It has been hijacked by the media, politicians, 'hangers on', pretenders and kids! ANZAC is a day for Veterans ONLY. I personally, will NEVER again march on the 25th of April!

The RSL. Another 'political correct' organisation. Who are morally corrupt in my view! Too frightened to stand-up to those who 'attack' the legitimate veterans in our community. Most of us are now, far too old to defend ourselves.

I'm sorry to all you good folk for my very negative attitude. I just don't travel all that well 'round ANZAC Day.

Cheers...sungwu.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 27 April 2007 4:49:17 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Some great posts here.

I agree, the jingoism and mawkish sentimentality is being laid on thicker every year.

I also despair at the way war is being glorified. In amongst the flag waving, the street marches and the medal displays, I agree, very little if anything is being said about the true horror and futility of warfare.

I can understand the reticence of returned soldiers to talk about the madness, the chaos and the sheer terror of what they went through, but perhaps if more of them did, more of us might be less likely to follow in their footsteps.
Posted by Bronwyn, Saturday, 28 April 2007 12:44:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy