Yvonne, I usually like to read what you post on OLO. Lots of good common sense.

Consider again what you write about teachers and principals: "I have yet to meet a teacher who is not interested in good educational outcomes for the students in their care." compared to: "I'm sorry to say I'm not that impressed with principals."

As for teachers, I have to say I have met only two teachers who couldn't care less about kids - out of scores I have known over a lifetime. So my experience teaches me that there are a few really poor teachers and many excellent ones. Most are - surprise, surprise - average.

As for principals, I have met perhaps five outstanding ones and two who were dolts - bully boys who should have been running meat markets rather than schools. Most of the principals I've met are averagely competent.

As a group education people are likely to be spread over a full spectrum of abilities, application and dedication, aren't they? Just like doctors, shop assistants or carpenters? Or politicians or OLO posters?

I suppose the problem with using personal experience in judging the teaching profession as a whole is that the general run-of-the mill parent is likely to meet only a handful of principals and a few more teachers in their time with school-aged children. So, beyond personal experience, most of us are captive to media representations which are often based on government media handouts associated with political agenda. Notice, for example, how often negative media reports appear around the time governments are about to announce education budget cuts. Or notice how poor "standards" are when the Feds want to take over the nation's schools and universities.

I agree totally with you Frank. My point was that for everyone with anecdotes of 'terrible' teachers somebody can come up with anecdotes of 'terrible' principals, doctors, lawyers, etc.

That's why as a tax-payer and parent, I'm very dismayed about the whole notion of competency based pay for teachers being sold to me as an improvement for my student children. I can think of good arguments why I think this could make it worse.

Competent based on what? Competent based on the opinion of the principal? Competent based on high marks from their students? Maybe on the number of students sent or not sent to the 'Responsible Thinking Centre'? Competent based on extracurricular activities the teacher performs? The number of workshops attended? All of the above?

If an argument can be made for competency based pay for teachers, I say, start at 'the top', start with educators who work as principals. More responsibilities, more pay, probably easier to assess.

There are many jobs where productivity can be measured by the number of widgets sold, manufactured or saved, but how is this done with education?

And then, can I as a parent, find out who the competent and non-competent teachers are? Or are all the competent teachers going to end up in particular schools and based on where I can afford to live my children may or may not be taught by the 'best' teachers?

I'd be far more interested if there was more debate about curriculum content and delivery, and assessment methods. For starters.

As far as pay goes, any professional deserves a fair and reasonable income. That goes for teachers, as well as nurses, doctors, etc.

I have 4 children and between them they have been to 11 schools, so my children and I have come across alot of Principals and Teachers.

I believe that the majority of teachers that my children have had have been good. There have been maybe 4 or 5 outstanding teachers, the rest did the best that they could in a difficult situation and for the most time, the time spent was alright to good. However, there are a number of teachers that my children have come by that have managed to make my children's time with them hell.

I believe that the majority of the Principals that I have had to deal with appeared tired as though they were struggling to cope. They didn’t seem to be able do anything about anything that happens to those in their school.

It seems that the Department gets to choose how to handle every situation, allegation and/or complaint. Of course protecting the reputation of the Department and Government is of paramount concern.

The Department is not required to care about the children, that is Legislated as the parents role. When, and if, a parents speaks out, they pay the price.