Shorbe, you say you are not enrolled on the electoral roll because you don't believe in democracy. Well, just what do you believe in then, if I may enquire? Do you believe in obligations and are you a citizen? Do you believe in paying taxes, using some social services, accept a certain freedom of speech and indulge in community participation like serve on juries and send children to school? Since all citizens receive - directly and indirectly - so many benefits from the collective act of voting, don't you feel a responsibility to participate? Perhaps you belong to some exclusive religious sect .... who knows? Strikes me that you are somewhat a confused individual.

Must say that TTiger sounds extinct when he says he gets "embarrassed" when he "tells friends in America and Britain that voting is compulsory here" because he feels strongly that "Freedom to vote also means freedom NOT to vote". Perhaps TTiger is already reduced to slave status where for him, like in the US of A, many would say "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" in the home of the unthinking slave... where this notion of an unconnected freedom is about the worst sucker bait.

May I suggest that "to do nothing is to live in denial and accept the lie of our "existence". To sit in silent complacency is to welcome the domination over our lives. The failure to act is an act in failure, and a warm embrace to an unmitigated corruption befalling humankind."

Keiran, have the rights of the individual been usurped by the collective to enslave the individual to the will of the collective?
Australian democracy in action. I must vote for A team or B team. If A team wins B team then does every thing in it's power to stop A team from accomplishing the very reasons A team was elected. Which every member who barracked and voted for B team but lost, thinks is clever and a creditable way to govern a country. Reversing the roles makes no difference and hasn't.

Paying taxes and voting isn't a pride of citizenship under this type of governing. It's paying taxes and voting according to a scripted role that lost it's value when the loosing party and their media found they could still influence society on the other teams ticket while frustrating that teams commitment to the policies they were elected to make real for the people.
It isn't about the care and maintenance of society any more. It's a endless tug of war that accomplishes very little of the commitments made to the people who pay taxes in the name of party partizsanship and media point making. Jersey knitting.

Chris Shaw. What are your activities re changing the world please? Might like to help out mate. Does it involve a coup as yet? Ballarat and Bendigo all over again?

TRTL, for once I agree with you. It does give minors some hope if we are forced to turn up, vote or not at least we may tick a box right?

DavidJS. Pedantic and dumb comment mate. If you bother turning up why informal? Have the guts to stick to your principles and face a fine. Mostly it never happens anyway. We do have compulsory voting.

Pericles. How does voluntary voting help democracy at all? Voluntary obviously favours the big two. As it does in the US where they drive buses around buying votes for $1, as per the Governor of California. Democracy? I don't think so.

Quick response. Sorry, electonic voting just needs a good hacker and all elections are over before they start. Paper voting gives some chance of honesty through the numbers involved.

RStuart. Good comments but I'd prefer to know if Cronulla will win today. A little naive re voting more than once though. Ever heard the expression vote early and vote often? It doesn't come from nowhere and is still practised here and everywhere.

Something is wrong here. I agree mainly with Aqvarivs as well.

Is there a consensus that we all don't want the majors? If so then you must vote, compulsory or voluntary, just put these two last so the $2.10 per vote goes to a minor or independent. The $ per vote is CPI'd and outstrips inflation as such.

When we are discussing compulsory voting, we are largely ignoring European and North American democracies. Instead we are copying draconian third world models like those of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Egypt, Paraguay and Turkey. These are the kinds of countries that impose compulsory voting. Our oppressive law is not like that in most of Europe and North America? It simply needs to be scrapped.

Agreed, voting isnt compulsory.

Just the signing up to and attending periodic role call bit is.

Neat little trick.

Its nice to have someone knocking on my door every now and then, checking up, taking roll call. Armed with boxes to tick and threats to make. Its nice to live in a free democrazy.

A woman was imprisoned a few yrs ago for refusing to enrol. Sherrifs turned up and hauled her off to the lock up. They dont have day care in those places so she had to leave the kids behind. She relented in the end.

The complusory bit about role call is the problem.

Big call, RobbyH

>>How does voluntary voting help democracy at all? Voluntary obviously favours the big two. As it does in the US where they drive buses around buying votes for $1, as per the Governor of California. Democracy? I don't think so.<<

You are - probably deliberately - confusing two lines of thought here.

There is nothing about voluntary voting that specifically favours the "big two" as you call them. However, there is everything about our form of preferential voting that specifically favours the major parties - i.e. the practice of making deals to allocate preferences.

This system ensures that your vote ends up in the bucket of one of the two main parties.

But you don't know ahead of time, which direction it will go. So, not only has your vote for a minor party or independent become meaningless, but it has been allocated, without your agreement, to one or other of the parties that you voted against.

How can that be described as democratic?

But back to your points about non-compulsory voting favouring the big two parties...

>>As it does in the US where they drive buses around buying votes for $1<<

All this does is to ensure that the voter reaches the ballot box. When I was young, this was a standard activity - volunteers would door-knock the neighbourhood ahead of time, asking "can we count on your vote?" - and if the answer was yes, they would then ask "can we give you a lift to the polling station?" to ensure a maximum turnout for their party.

But even then they couldn't be sure that the voter was actually placing the vote where they said they would - it being a secret ballot and all - maybe they just wanted a ride to the polling booth.

Compulsory voting is disguising the level of distrust of our political system, and our politicians, within the electorate.

When turnouts become painfully low, is it the politicians' fault, or the citizens'?