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The Forum > Article Comments > The barriers go up > Comments

The barriers go up : Comments

By Peter van Vliet, published 21/3/2007

The Government seems determined to use the stick approach by linking citizenship to a higher level English test that many will fail.

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This article is timely and apposite.
What a mockery of sense it is to make a high degree of competence in English a component of sucessful migration.

I suggest that we throw the Prime Minister of the country right now, unless he can go on The 7.30 Report and discourse on African migration philosophy in Swahili or Bantu.
Not happy, John?

We are not born with language skill; it is a learned thing.
All that language barriers achieve with migration is to provide the nation's non-thinkers with a useful prop for their xenophobia.
Also, we're being snowed with the favourite issue of our time - "terrorism".
It's a handy phrase to repeat over and over, to ensure that arms and repression forces get a biger slice of the financial cake.

One of the best things that we can do for fairness and equality is to place OURSELF in the shoes of the prospective migrant.
Could we hack it for permanent entry to another country?
I doubt it, so we just keep on striving to exclude fellow humans from ours!
Posted by Ponder, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 10:27:39 AM
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Peter van Vliet is right to expect responses to his article to reveal outright hostility to the concept of multiculturalism.

Some of will be personally abusive. After all, van Vliet is the Executive Officer of the Ethnic Communities' Council of Victoria; therefore, we'll have the dog squad barking about vested interests, the multicultural industry and taxpayers' money.

Some of it will betray abyssmal ignorance of the meaning of the concept and how it plays out in communities, employment, schools and other places where Australians interact. These critics will invent all sorts of demonic 'isms' that they will define as Multiculturalism and then set about demolishing their own inventions.

Some of it will be manifest an hysterical fear (real or contrived) of difference and make false connections to such phenomena as Islam, terrorisim, national security and race. And, of course, we'll have conspiracy theorists telling us that 'Multiculturalism is designed to destabilise Australian culture for ideological purposes'.

Encouraged by the Howard Government's dumping of the word 'Multiculturalism' from the title of the Immigration Department, some will hail the imminent end of Multiculturalism.

However, readers should not confuse the volume of the anti-multicultural noise with any clear analysis of the policy.

Australia is demographically a multicultural society and most Australians understand that that reality cannot be changed without ethnic cleansing and mass deportations. Many Australians actually rejoice in the diversity and say that diversity has made Australia a better place to live.

What is harder for many Australians to grapple with is how Australia should respond to cultural diversity. Clear-headed reflection will show us that Australian values and culture are under continuing development and negotiation through democratic processes.

Australian values and culture are not a fixed and final product to be transmitted to the young and the newly-arrived or to be inspected in a museum display case. In a democracy these matters are debated maturely in an on-going way and are never finally resolved. You would hope that OLO would be a site where that mature debate is furthered. I suspect irrational hostility will prevail. That's a pity.
Posted by FrankGol, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 10:47:04 AM
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Just so that we know that you are all fair dinkum about the xenophobia bit, let us have a well reasoned treatise from someone explaining the immigration and citizenship policies of the Japanese. I haven't read any accusations of xenophobia there from any our multiculturism supporters.
Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 1:23:26 PM
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And having migrants speaking fluent english is a bad thing is it? Considering that a lot of us never wanted 'multiculturalism' in the first place, speaking the national language (English) is a good deal. In fact, speaking fluent english is essential in breaking down the barriers towards a more cohesive society, since the advent of a ruinous 'diverse' society (the diversity that costs some 9 billion $ a year to prop up - taxpayers money of course).
Posted by davo, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 1:35:29 PM
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Yep, FrankGol, here they come. The usual avalanche of people with the misguided impression that they're the only real good citizens of the nation.

It's odd that those of us happy to live in Australian society the way it is, multicultural, are so often accused of having hatred and loathing for our own country. It's obviously the other way around.

Australia is a high immigration, multicultural nation where many languages are spoken and we're all used to a variety of accents and versions of English. That's just what Australian society is. Yet so many here complain about it. So many xenophobes who want the country to be exclusively Anglo, something it isn't.

Seems to me the intolerant are the ones who loathe Australian society. We need some properly funded programs to help them assimilate to the real Australia.
Posted by chainsmoker, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 2:01:20 PM
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Is questioning multiculturalism wrong ? Why shouldn't we have a population debate, what is the ideal number of us ? what is an ideal socio-cultural mix ?

I wonder if it may be that as our demography becomes more complex we need to find simpler national symbols to define what an Australian is ? Pledge allegiance to the flag and all that guff ?

If English is our national language should there be any public obligation to provide information etc in other languages ?
Posted by westernred, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 2:04:14 PM
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Davo, you say: In fact, speaking fluent english is essential in breaking down the barriers towards a more cohesive society...' and I couldn't agree more (who would disagree - see further comments below)?

But why wrap that sensible idea in the emotional blanket: 'Considering that a lot of us never wanted 'multiculturalism' in the first place...? and the cliched 'taxpayers money'?

westernred, you ask: 'Is questioning multiculturalism wrong ?' Clearly the answer has to be 'No, it's a very good thing'. The trouble is that the questions you then go on to ask are not about multiculturalism, but about immigration: 'Why shouldn't we have a population debate, what is the ideal number of us ? what is an ideal socio-cultural mix ?'

The distinction is important. Immigration is about who should come here and in what numbers and so on. Multiculturalism is about how we generate social cohesion and the good life within a culturally diverse society while avoiding the creation of inequalities, disenfranched minorities, racial tension and so on.

National symbols may be important for social cohesion; but access to economic opportunities, minimisation of discrimination and equality before the law are infinitely more important indicators a nation's social well-being.

Although English is our national language, there should continue to be a public obligation to provide information in other languages, for a whole range of reasons such as occupational safety in workplaces, access to medical and legal information and services, helping parents understand their children's schooling, access to media, not to mention helping families to stay cohesive (kids tend to learn English much faster than adults and the differential can cause problems in families).
Posted by FrankGol, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 2:37:31 PM
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FrankGol posted somewhere something about doing a thesis at Oxford. Which is interesting. From this I can assume you are highly intelligent. But because you are so well educated does not gives your views on multiculturalism any validity since the prospect that you act only out of self-interest is frighteningly real.

Australian universities for example are reliant on overseas students upfront fees for funding. Coincidently, many academics are strong supporters of the ‘global village’ multicultural philosophy. The fact that many overseas students are from Asian countries with a poor grasp of the English language is irrelevant, since they are cash cows paying the Lecturer’s wages. In fact many academics pass international students who should really have failed. A lack of proficiency in the English language renders a lot of them unsuitable for university study at Australian Universities, but they ‘pay the bills’.

So, it is understandable why academics will fight for multiculturalism at any cost, even if it means that newcomers can’t speak the English language. Infrastructure to assist those who can’t speak English is an added drain on the public purse, since they should have been prepared for the Australian way of life before they came here.

Migrants may be ‘good’ for the economy, but the economy is not good to Australians, particularly the low skilled. And those hit with unsustainable mortgages because of unaffordable housing. People on the receiving end of the economic system will no doubt make a simple demand; that newcomers at least speak fluent English.
Posted by davo, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 7:03:31 PM
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This article is just one of many to be expected from the MC industry as its demise comes closer.

The author wrongly blames fear of terrorism as the cause for changes.
But he would be better advised to look at the ideology of MC and the conduct of some of the ethnic groups.

For far too long, the citizenship criteria has needed tightening up. The residential requirement is now reasonable, or could do with an extra year and a probationry period as well. Critics are jumping the gun on the English test. Time enough when we know its compasition.

Most of what the author has to say is just rubbish and should be viewed from the fact that he has his job to protect.

We now need to move on and discuss if some people should not be allowed to become immigrants on non compatibility grounds, and just what should our population be, that we should aim for.
Posted by Banjo, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 9:28:20 PM
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Frank....

The main problem with "multiculturalism" is the clear message that the prevailing culture that emerged with the growth of Australia up to lets say the end of WW2 and which was very much a unified, relatively homogenous culture, is now just 'one of many'.

This is the wrong message to be sending to people with any sense of national identity.

This is probably at the root of the rather fervent anti 'migrant' outbursts which greeted the first shiploads of non British stock.

It is also quite reasonable for those who have emerged as part of that prevailing national culture to expect those from different backrounds to embrace that existing culture as far as possible, and it is they who should bend over backwards, go the extra mile, do the hard yards to adapt to the new country, rather than the other way around.
It is inconceivable that an Australian in Greece would expect the Greek government to specifically cater to his Australian culture.
To suggest such would be understood as an outright insult to Greek Identity and culture.

So, the removal of the word 'multi' culturalism and its replacement with 'citizenship' is a great leap forward at the most fundamental level.

You 'state' that demographically Australia is a Multi Cultural society. How did it become that way ? Were the early protesters at the warves 'right' in 1948 ?
You then suggest that the obvious solution is 'ethnic cleansing' (to we rednecks) No so at all mate.

How about a reasonable response, such as "assist migrants in studied adjustment to Australian culture" ? How hard is that ? and its all I am asking.

You mention how the 'anti MC hysteria will be connected to Muslims. Ok.. did you know there is a seminar over easter at Melbourne Exhibition buildings, and one of the guest speakers advocates marriage to pre-pubescent children 'because the prophet did it' ?

Do you not see such guest speakers as a threat to Australian values ?
I sure do and quite likely will be at the seminar (outside) making a point or 2.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 9:37:35 PM
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BD I share your concerns, Australia mostly shares your concerns the fact you are a Christian sees some decry your views but still facts remain.
However , remember the extremes will insult not debate, the Australian migrants question sheet is no answer to terrorism.
Some of our very best Australians would never have got in the door using this test.
Both sides of politics use this to keep our concerns at SOME migrants from within SOME groups.
It is a weak and gutless refusal to handle the real issue.
Sometimes multiculturalism has dangerous faults in it.
Is it worth while at any cost?
Clearly sometimes it is not.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:27:44 AM
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I agree: Australia should not retreat into a world of fear and diversity.

With a policy like this; it is no wonder we are growing smaller minds, confused, if not entirely disconnected.

Cross-wired, is this worth arguing?

This is not problem solving, it reflects a war on our difference. It shrinks us all below the heart of our nationhood and leads us nowhere near the task of overcoming our cultural cringe.

We need a no wrong door approach yesterday.

We need to evlove, not go backwards - please!

.
Posted by miacat, Thursday, 22 March 2007 1:44:23 AM
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The author said: "No one enjoys sitting in queues or shopping and not being able to communicate with other people."

That's why there are so many shops that have only non-English signage.

Re citizenship, personally I wouldn't consider trying to become a citizen of another country without first learning that country's offical language. However the reasons for people wanting to change their citizenship obviously vary greatly, so they might not share that view.
Posted by Ev, Thursday, 22 March 2007 9:33:10 AM
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The important thing to remember is migration and migrant histories are similar around the world.

Three main stages

Stage One, arrived into new nation with poor local language skills, struggling, working to ensure they survive with changed world around them, with memories of old nation.

Stage Two, born into or growing up in new nation, acquired new nation language and cultural skills whilst retaining language and cultural skills of old nation; Often a mish mash of both languages and cultures whatever values as they grow they feel relevant to or as beneficial for their desired lives. This stage/generation understands can be difficult adapting to new nation from own changing value conflicts with their parents.

Stage Three, children of Stage Two parents, are often fully adapted seen as part of new nation and culture. From this comfort they may look back with interest to where their family may came from.

Of course this is a simplification, and for some it takes a few extra generations. The key is the integration and mixing with other people with other values and the developing of tolerance for other people with other values.

Not so long ago being Catholic or Protestant were perceived by many as gaps wider than being Italian or Irish.

For some who have generation antescedants this journey began with arrival of western society.

Time cures all ills, developing tolerance is the medicine.
Posted by polpak, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:09:28 AM
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Howard's policy of re-introducing an English language based skills test is desired. After all, it's not as if they are rushed into the language and as the English language is the most spoken language, there is no shortage of language courses availalbe.

Last time I was at the Sydney Domestic Airport, I found a McDonalds store where not one employee could speak any language but Mandarin. As for immigrants want to learn english, an amazing amount of long time residents still can't speak English. Or so they say.

Immigration needs many changes and that requires an abolition of multiculturalism and having a policy of intergration. Too many cases of white Australians being refused service in Asian run stores in Cabramatta to name just one place.

I remember going to an Asian restaurant with a couple I am friends with was interesting. One of the workers told me to leave the store as they only serve Asians. Now, imagine if I said, we only serve whites here.

When I was about to stand up and give this mug some lip including directions back to his mud pit back in China, my Cantonese mate spoke to him quickly and amazingly, I was allowed to stay.

Australia needs fixed by outlawing this racial tribalism and that includes the need for making English a compulsory known language.
Posted by Spider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:23:57 AM
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I just read a comment saying that Australian values and culture is not fixed. This is an arguement I am tired with as if I were to say...let's Australianise the cultures of China, Japan, Russia, Turkey, etc for their culture is always up for change, I would be attacked for being racist by these very same people.

Our culture is NOT up for change as you so like. If you like to change your lifestyle to that of another country, then pack your bag and scram. Nobody is stopping you.
Posted by Spider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:30:25 AM
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It is important that a migrant can speak and understand basic English, spoken and written, to be able to live in this country for their own good and for the good of other Aussie citizens as well.

In principle a test might be a good idea as long as it is fair and tests relevant things and the standard of English ability required is at an appropriate level (ie primary school). I'd want to see the test before i passed judgement on that.
Posted by Donnie, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:09:13 PM
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Belly
exactly mate "refusal to tackle the real issue"

One reason for this may be out signatory status on UN conventions.

I often refer to this.. we need to REVIEW our signatory status and ADD PROVISO'S or conditions or exclusions which are in our national interest.

If I had a dollar for every time Bob Brown whined about 'Australia has international obligations based on our UN signatory status' I'd be rich. So.. yes.. lets tackle the REAL issue quickly and decisively.

Then we can be selective in our immigration and stop mucking around so much with 'indirect' immigration policy via such stringent english tests.

Being Christian does not me have less common sense though. To me its as plain as sunrise in february. If we act early, then we don't have the problem of what to do with fundamentally incompatible cultural intrusion.

-Sheikh Bilal Phillips .. guest speaker at the Islamic conference over Easter coming up is a Salafi, (Like Wahabi) and is reported to have said it is fine for old men (like 50+) to marry 9 yr old girls because Mohammad did it.

-He actually says (as opposed to is reported to have said) on his web site that he now believes that taking all photographs is HARAM. (noCANdo)

He will have to speak to me about that, because if I'm there and see him I'll be taking his photograph as a statement of political liberty and freedom in the land. I'll also be asking why the Quran CURSES Christians (and Jews) and begs Allah to destroy us. (Surah 9:30) and why MOhammed also CURSES Christians repeatedly on his death bed.

Those 2 things far outweigh any 'nice' things said about people of the book in Islam.

Fred Nile says: "NO MORE MUSLIM IMMIGRATION" Why ? because the community is being fed, nurtured, built up by such people as Phillips who have disgusting and predatory views on female children which are against our laws and culture. While some may incline away from such teaching, it remains that such people are regarded as 'guides'.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:31:38 PM
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I agree with Spider, we are not seeing 'multiculture' now, we are seeing Tribalism. As people come here, knowing that Australians are as weak as the proverbial and walk around trying not to upset or'marginalise' the delicate members among us.
The agreements with the UN should be torn up and Australian laws be the only and sole laws in this country.Any who do not want to live by our laws should be forced to leave.
The English test is a bit silly, any crook can learn English, it is no criterian of character. Even Hilali can speak enough to get by and you would not want migrants like him.
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 1:19:57 PM
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I wonder why none of the non-english speaking australians, who are lauded in the original article, are present here?
Posted by gerald, Thursday, 22 March 2007 3:24:55 PM
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If the tests are about literacy and not sacred Australian values, then I will be against this waste of time and money (where are the conservatives who love saving money? Oh, protectionism trumps economy)
Posted by Steel, Thursday, 22 March 2007 3:26:22 PM
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Gee. Reminds me of a yarn. Anders the immigrant moves into a boarding house. He has little English skills. Every so often the Land Lady would go to the window and yell into the backyard. "Lady Emblew! Lady Emblew!". He thought at first dhe was letting him know her name. So he made sure she knew he had understood. "Jawort! Jawort! Jaworl! he would yell back at the landlady. One day he figured maybe she was talking to someone in the back yard. Helooked out the window and looked up all the names of all the things in the backyard. He studies his dictionary and found the words he thought may help "dog", "bark" toilet". He finally asked the landlady what Lady Emblew! meant. He was told though the language barrier with a lot of pointing at the dog and finally was shown it was to quieten the dog.

So the next day when the dog started up he yells "Lady Emblew" "Lady Emblew" thinking it was the dogs name as loud as he could. The dog settled. Later as the language barrier melted away he realised he was actually yelling: "Lay down, Blue."

We're going to miss out on lot of good yarns if the barriers go up. So enriches our culture.

By the way since when do we follow the Japanese example. I thought we were a Nation that had enough character and sense of justice to do things our way.
Posted by ronnie peters, Thursday, 22 March 2007 3:53:59 PM
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