billie: I found the British system even more terrifying than our own! I'm off to Japan to teach English. In terms of money, I could probably earn (and save) more by being here and just getting a(ny) full time job, given the cost of living there, but I'm going for other reasons.

Anyway...

I'm in favour of privatising the education system. I'm (fairly) aware of the positives and negatives of such a proposal, as unpopular as that might be.

"...the conditions offered to teachers are just good enough to lure teachers from the state system. I can attest that just because you pay big fees there is no guarantee that you are getting good teachers."

The conditions aren't just about pay and/or facilities. It's been a breath of fresh air this year to be what I'm qualified for -- a teacher -- not a crowd controller. Private schools have to weed out the bad teachers (and students) or they lose clients. Not so with the state system.

"The teachers can be inexperienced and energetic enough to be able to survive jungle like conditions. Its up to the school deputy principal to instil discipline for the sake of less robust staff and to permit students to learn in a calm, safe, fear free environment."

My experiences at all sorts of state schools, not just outer suburban schools, are that for some reason, the discipline simply isn't there. Ultimately, short of killing someone, the 20% of hardcore trouble makers can do pretty much as they like. Not so in the private system.

"The private schools only have to aim to be a little bit better that the government school to attract students. Once the government school system is broken then private schools can let their standards slip. Hasn't there been a rise in proportions of students attending private schools in the USA?"

Not sure about the U.S. I disagree with everything else though. Private schools have to compete with each other also, even if they're going for a niche market (such as kids with behavioural issues, gifted musicians, etc.).

shorbe I know people who have just returned from teaching in Japan where they saved more money than they would have in Australia. Have fun!

Two Americans wrote a book about rowing and steering, and before you could blink the concept of “provider capture' had poisoned government services throughout Australia. Its purpose is to undermine the professional expertise of teachers in the public mind.

In the lead-up to and in the years immediately following the 1992 Victorian election, the media were full of the “provider capture” campaign to cut spending on children in government schools by denigrating teachers as a pampered and privileged elite:
'…teacher unions have “captured” the operation of education services in regard to staffing and working conditions so that the education system has become unduly teacher-driven.' (Institute of Public Affairs, Schooling Victorians, 1992)
'There is extensive over-staffing of teachers, inefficient work practices and “union” capture of education expenditure.' (IPA, Schooling Victorians, 1992)
'The schools are simply a racket and a rort for teachers who use it as a fully salaried system of outdoor relief.' (Peter Ryan, “Teachers fail to get the point”, The Age, 1/8/1992)
'The perks and privileges of this cosseted profession were absolutely sacrosanct.” (“A lesson in anarchy.” (Herald Sun (editorial), 19/11/1992)
'Schools…appear to be run more for the benefit and convenience of their employees than for their users.' (Claude Forell, “A reckoning unions had to have”, The Age, 25/11/1992)
'The emergency teacher system…had not existed before 1980…' (Don Hayward, quoted in Denis Muller, “Schools already feel bite of education cuts”, The Age, 1/3/1993) [As a school daily organiser, I knew this was untrue because I had employed emergency teachers without restriction way back in 1978.]
'…considerable over-staffing and restrictive work practices…' (Des Moore, “Why government needs to be rolled back”, The Age, 5/7/1993)
'…cosy deals with teacher unions…wasteful school work practices...' (Alan Stockdale, “Education's future depends on savings”, The Age, 22/9/1993)
'… a cosy bracket of work practices...' (Don Hayward, quoted in Felicity Dargan, “100 schools to go”, Herald Sun, 30/9/1993)

The long-term teacher pay cuts, teaching load increases, secondary teacher number cuts, busywork increases, collegiate judgement declines in schools - all prove that there is no “provider capture”, but you just can't keep a good slogan down.

Thanks for the quotes.

Billie,

There are a lot more quotes. There are more on the comments section of the thread “The long march back to reason”:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5080
They show clearly what a disgraceful job was done on Victorian teachers by the nasty types who used to run the state.

18 per cent, not 40 per cent, of Victorian government school teachers (six out of ten of those under 25) are on contracts (“Call to curb contract plague”, AEU News, February 2007).

Over the last 15 years education has seen the rise in power of those who know nothing and the decline in power of those with expertise.

We can devise a pay system that gives more to the best teachers, but test results, student surveys and the favouritism and victimisation by principals are not ways to do it.

Victoria has a leading teacher category. Teachers promoted to it receive higher pay, but they have to take on administrative duties, and it is totally in the power of the principal as to how many there will be in a school and whether or not they will be used up and spat out. When the system was introduced, the previous government promised to fund schools to allow 30 per cent of positions to be promotion and to require a minimum of 25 per cent. Once the system was in, that particularly bad government dumped its promise. The current voucher system for funding Victorian schools does not provide the money needed for sufficient promotion positions.

Three steps are needed:
1. The re-creation of an advanced skills teacher category, with rigorous criteria and promotion to it by a panel of teachers internal and external to the school (perhaps from VIT), but with no quota;
2. The creation of a leading teacher (classroom) category, with a set number of positions in each school determined by the DoE and with a requirement to maintain a full teaching load, not go into administration.
3. The return of the requirement dumped by the previous government that members of the principal class actually teach.

"We can devise a pay system that gives more to the best teachers, but test results, student surveys and the favouritism and victimisation by principals are not ways to do it." - Chris C
Can't see it happening given the recruitment solution.

When the Victorian Education department shifted responsibilty for hiring teaching staff to the individual schools

did every school get additional administrative staff,
did the teachers involved in interviewing get a reduction in load
each school became responsible for its hiring choices
each school became responsible for paying its casual relief teachers directly

The ministry of education could have reduced the staffing office numbers and saved staff.
Instead of copying the existing TAFE staff recuitment website the ministry devised its own system. A system that is really harsh waste of upload traffic, difficult for secondary school teachers to use, difficult for schools to use. The online recruitment system is hated by all but the design committee that specified it. The system used to advertise all vacancies for positions longer than 4 weeks. The requirement now is only those positions available for longer than 2 terms need to be advertised.

This makes it hard for a prospective teacher to know where there are vacancies. So more than ever its up to the candidate to visit every school in the area you want to work in. Imagine doorknocking all the schools in Melbourne metro or even southern metro.

Casual conversation with young teachers indicates that its quite hard to get a position. At least one metropolitan university sends out a glossy book to each school with a one page profile on each of its graduates that schools use to contact likely candidates.