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The Forum > Article Comments > Poverty - our moral failure > Comments

Poverty - our moral failure : Comments

By Tim Costello, published 13/3/2007

The commitment required to eradicate global poverty is modest compared to the cost we will have to endure in combating climate change.

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The failure is political.
Winner-takes-all politics means that - where it counts - only the winners have a say.
And for the winners, benevolent morality is only of decorative value. Make moral sounds, but the decisions which count are all dictated by big wealth.
And the morality of big wealth? Selfish. Vicious. Conquest. War. Kill our competitors - always for freedom and democracy, of course.
Guess whom the winner of the coming election will serve?
Benevolent morality or big wealth?
What would you bet on?
Posted by aker, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 2:49:59 AM
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TC is just like Bono & Bob. Save the world types who live for the limelight by getting us to fork out even more. Save your breath & stop ramming your hobby horse onto everyone else with your guilt trips.

Tony save-the-world Blair addressed the African Leaders a few years back & gave his vision for saving Africa (at least he was sincere & his ideas were workable). When it was Mugabe's turn to speak, he effectively told Blair to bugger off, and let African leaders run Africa.... And all the other leaders applauded.

That's the problem. The policies that would end absolute poverty go well beyond aid (which often gets siphoned off by corrupt leaders anyhow, or channeled into weapons & war) and are about fiscal responsibility, which unfortunately runs counter to the interests of leaders. Sub-Sahara Africa as a whole is actually worse off now than it was 40 years ago, whereas other nations at similar stages of development to Africa back then, & which have received far less aid, have developed rapidly (eg Indonesia).

So TC, if you are really interested in improving Africa's lot, take a course in economic development & then put all your efforts at coming up with a system which will make this work in Africa. If it works, you'll be a hero, which after all is what you want to be seen as. Sure the journey will take longer, & you'll be noticed less along the way, but the rewards will be worth it. You do want genuine progress in Africa, don't you Tim? That's why you are in this game I assume? ......Tim, you there?

Until then, keep your shame to yourself, & in the immortal words of Mugabe...
Posted by TNT, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 6:14:28 AM
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"Global Poverty" is a political football.

Each instance and country must be analyzed individually. Some poverty is a result of pure and simple corruption and squabbling over resources like DIAMONDS..

Other Poverty is a result of proxy wars by local warlords supported by Western interests in expanding their 'sphere of influence'.

Other Poverty is a result of very little by way of natural resources.

Other Poverty is a result of ..... and so it goes on.

What IS "Poverty" ? Trying to define this in Western socio economic terms is totally meaningless! Do we call a Malay living in a run down humpy over the water "poor" ? I've seen them so described, but inside they have color TV's and fridges etc.

Is a person who has enough to eat each day, but cannot afford some luxuries, or can only afford to live in a bit of a shack made from 2nd hand scrounged materials "poor" ? Not really. Relative to our 2 car families etc yes, but not in 'fact'.

The Lords Prayer "give us this day our daily bread".... not our weekly, monthly or yearly.. "daily"... so if people have enough to eat.. good.

Ok.. what about those who don't have enough to eat and live under plastic in refugee or squatter camps on border areas ?

ANALYSE THE CAUSE ! If their poverty is based on the cruel and heartless grab for resources (such as in Sierra Leone) like Diamonds, then the solution is
a)NOT to send them food packages..
b)NOT to simply open ones own borders for a flood of refugees.

IT IS TO SEND IN THE ARMY ! and do the following:

1/ FIND the leaders then execute them along with their upper echelons.
2/ Dismantle their organizations.
3/ IMPOSE a peace and then work towards some kind of establishment of some semblance of representative government but if ethnic competition is too apparent.. install a benevolent dictatorship such as Singapore.

Biblical Basis ? Romans 13:1-5

This should bring out the bleeding hearts :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 7:41:21 AM
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Gee Tim, you're really getting the rough end of the pineapple in many of these posts, many unfairly in my view, but it would be good to know that you might have sifted through them in some manner and a post script would be encouraging.
Your title, 'Poverty - our moral failure' may not have been your choice but it does suggest finality. We have failed...end of story and we all need to take a long hard look at ourselves in your view.
OK but perhaps you also are capable of introspection. My suggestion is that you get your head around the comparative example you mentioned, the problem and cost of combatting global warming and how it might benefit some poverty stricken. The Stern Report suggests 1% of GDP spent now will save huge imposts on developed country GDP's if left too late. There is the potential here for very large capital transfers to undeveloped (ie poor) countries to reduce global energy demand. One UK proposal is for individual carbon credits. This may be unworkable but could have the potential to radically alter living standards.
World Vision ought to be in the forefront of this new thinking. You are in a unique position to start offering something alternative to the failed aid give-till-it-hurts reality.
Posted by jup, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 8:52:40 AM
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In a global world the difference between internal and external is blurred. The alienation and dispear arising from povety leads to a spectum of behaviours, from vanadalism to terrorism. Perhaps an old arabic saying is topical. The sword of Allah, the empty stomachs of the poor. In all aid we should aim to preserve human dignity as we assist in effective ways. This would include training peoples to solve their own problems and avoid aid dependancy. In this the old Community Aid Abroad was very good. Inefficency in aid programs is NOT a reason to stop. It IS a reason to do it better.
I do not think we can fully tackle povety internal or external without examining the nature of money. All national currencies are now debt currencies. The money only comes into existance when a loan is made. In ways it works like the party game where people dance around around a circle of chairs. When the music stops people grap a chair, only there are never enough chairs. The present money system gives more money to those that have it and takes from those that don't. Its called interest, although whose interest is rarely defined. Local currency setup should be a part of aid programs. If you want to be revolutionary, pay off your debts.
Impostion of peace is very expensive and don't work. Pax Romania in Gaul left 1 third dead, 1 third slaves and 1 third subservient, not much of an idea.
Posted by Whispering Ted, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 9:00:32 AM
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Ahhh Tim. Would that you were your brother's keeper and could do something for poverty just in Australia. He has the power. Rather, our money to do that. How does he sleep at night?
Posted by RobbyH, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 1:18:58 PM
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