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The Forum > Article Comments > Secret education business > Comments

Secret education business : Comments

By Graeden Horsell, published 15/3/2007

Greater accountability and transparency in our schools would allow parents to make informed decisions when choosing a school.

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Simon parents and their attitudes also have a significant effect on outcomes.

This reinforces the importance of the emotions and motivation of the student. Learning is something the individual does but the environment to allow it to happen is critical. Good teachers get the best from their students by setting the environment that has the most chance of motivating students and good parents do the same. This means making sure that the adults in society believe that education is "a good thing" and it is important for children to think the same.

If this is the case and if as a society we think it valuable for children to have good educational outcomes perhaps we concentrate on ensuring that when children have good educational outcomes then the adults responsible also receive rewards and not penalties. Making sure that people are not penalised for educating their children, by more support for child care, by making education almost free, by rewarding teachers whose students excel by increasing their status, by giving those children who excel educationally more privileges than those who excel at sport rather than the reverse etc. We can and do many of these things already but perhaps we should do more.
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Sunday, 25 March 2007 6:10:20 AM
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Who benefits by insisting that teachers make all the difference? Teachers. There is no way known that teachers are the main parameter in educational success.

PISA (but does not wholeheartedly agree with as it devotes a significant section looking at other home influences) "“National research also suggests that schools appear to make little difference in overcoming the effects of disadvantaged home backgrounds.” see PISA 2003 p174

Home background affects brain development. eg
Poverty, privilege, and brain development:
empirical findings and ethical implicationsMartha J. Farah, Kimberly G. Noble and Hallam Hurt http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~mfarah/farah_SES_05.pdf

THE seminal work on why kids need a warm parents and a rich language environment
Meaningful differences in the everyday experience of young American
children /Author: Hart, Betty, 1927-
Publisher: Baltimore : P.H. Brookes,Date: c1995.

Two good RAND pubication, amongst many others, that support my view.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG558/
http://www.rand.org/pubs/corporate_pubs/2006/RAND_CP22-2004-12.pdf
Posted by Richard, Monday, 26 March 2007 1:23:16 PM
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Richard no one is saying that teachers are the only or even the main reason we have differences in education outcomes. (Perhaps native intelligence has something to do with it) What ACER says is that differences between teachers within a school are greater than differences between schools.

The way I interpret that is, within reason, it doesn't matter too much which school you go to what is more important is the teacher who ends up teaching you and that teachers make a difference.
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Monday, 26 March 2007 4:21:36 PM
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Fickle pickle

Yes they are, I quote Simon Templar above:

"ACER research shows clearly that while home and demographic indices give A LITTLE (my emphasis - his words) clue as to a child's likely academic and educational achievement,..."

The question is it the major influence. I think the there is ample evidence that the most effective approach is to address parents of children pre birth to 3. see Hart and Risely

I also think that this constant harping on interschool differences is rather pointless as the effects of different schools is marginal (even if significant in the statistical sense) and much of it indirectly attributable to the cumulative SES ( as a proxy for other behaviours)of parents.

Much of education debate is like Marx's discussion on law and order. Who gains from Crime? Criminals, one assumes, but also law inforcement. More police more prisons do not seem to correlate with less crime but you have a group of advocates who gain from crime. Simplistic and derivative I agree but makes some sense. Equally in education both, teachers and those who attack them (eg there is a prominent educationalist in the Aust that obviously makes a good living out of it - his name escapes me) benefit from advocating that if schools /teachers only were better paid more etc the education will improve.

No professional group gains from addressing under 3 problems that Hart and Risely expose and yet the problem can be addressed as it is in some Scandinavian Countries.

My slogan would be parents are the key.
Posted by Richard, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 11:37:56 AM
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For some reason, Richard does not want teachers to 'suffer' accountability when it comes to student achievement.

Of course parents, home, family upheaval etc have an impact, albiet quite variably on different students.

One of the great excuses for poor student achievement is that 'we have a disadvantaged school". Somehow destiny is handcuffed to one's postcode.

But there are too many examples to show that if you up the quality of teaching and focus delivery on student needs, and demonstrate high expectations, then quite different results can be the end result.

Salisbury High School is one in SA that has shown that with good governance, innovative leadership and quality teaching with a program geared to meet expectations of achievement, students can benefit - in fact last I heard students at this school were getting employment at the rate of 98% as compared to 30% for the school down the road drawing its constituency from the same group of postcodes.

My question is , how often should we be looking in the staff room to determnmine disadvantage rather than the postcodes of families??
Posted by Simon Templar, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 4:45:54 PM
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Richard it is not an either or case. Everything that helps should be looked at and included.

I am happy to reward children, parents, teachers, uncle tom cobbly and all if they can be shown to help children achieve better life outcomes. The key is to measure all the important things that are going on and to be able - where possible - to assign the rewards to those responsible. This will never be perfect and it doesn't have to be. We only have to make an approxiation to almost all variables and measures.

People want to know if they are helping and they want to be acknowledged for their achievements.

What they do not like is for people who do nothing or even worse are negative influences to get credit and rewards.
Posted by Fickle Pickle, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 4:56:24 PM
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