I am not convinced that Australia needs to continue its high levels of immigration.

Commentators like Tim Flannery have stated that Australia should support a population far below its existing levels. The current high population is straining the continents ability to absorb them. Already we have water shortages and import our food. The key proponents of increased imigration appear to be business leaders who want to increase their customer base.

There is ocnsiderable debate about just how real the "low unemployment rates" are, as the many IT graduates hunting for work will tell you, when IT workers are bought in 461 visas.

Heard a new spin on the labour shortage in far north Queensland, backpackers who can pick up work in FNQ can't get residency unless they study in Australia, so they study in Melbourne to get their residency, hope the boom is still on when they can get back to FNQ.

Its difficult to see how people from different histories can trust each other without considerable effort being put in to build a common identity.

“Weaving new threads into our cultural tapestry”

So that’s what the destroyers are now calling cultural suicide and the death of the West.

This character even comes up with the vapid old one about variety of restaurants! He certainly has strange priorities when we don’t have the water or arable land to support half our current population for much longer, never mind export income.

The only people who benefit from the immigration frenzy are immigrants themselves – for the time being.

The rest of us are paying big time for the lunacy, and we ain’t seen nothing yet

‘The rest of us are paying big time for the lunacy, and we ain’t seen nothing yet’

..do you need me to chip in? Because I’ve been here my whole life, and I haven’t paid anything yet. What have you paid, Leigh? I’ll see if I can match it.

Damn, here I’ve been reaping heaps of benefits of immigration, such as life long friendships with people born in other countries, and greater understanding of the world beyond my borders, and only now I realise I was supposed to be paying big time. And poor Leigh here has somehow missed out on all the benefits, despite paying big time!

So, so sorry.

Should we continue to depopulate struggling countries by taking their best and brightest because it’s to our benefit? Surely such selfish action by us only condemns struggling developing countries to perpetual impoverishment. Rather than think of what’s best for us we might think about helping struggling countries to retain their doctors, engineers and others who will help those countries build a better future.

The author also touches on the subject of the lack of trust in some ethnic groups. Shouldn’t that sound a tocsin to our alleged leaders? Wouldn’t it make sense to encourage simpatico migrants and avoid social friction? While it might be true that some migrants distrust Australians and relish the chance to throw up our history a visit to Google© will reveal the quaint practices of other migrant groups who dare to lecture us. For instance, would a healthy live concubine welcome being entombed with her dead master? As Nobel Peace Price Laureate Jose Ramos-Horta said in 1997: "If you compare Australia with Malaysia, Indonesia or China, Australia is the most tolerant country in the region," the East Timorese activist said. "Several regimes in Asia are more color- sensitive than Australia. I get incensed when hypocrites from this region criticize Australia for racism. They should learn from Australia."

If we have a lack of trust it would seem to be imported.

People are only foreigners when they open their mouths to speak!!

The trust bit is spot on. Most immigrants immediately go to people who speak their own language.....and assume they will be treated with respect, dignity and fairness. How wrong can many of them be. I would love to know the figures associated with women being conned into working in sweat shops run by their own 'countrymen' who they 'trust' and the number of people ripped off with immigration lawyers who charge swinaging fees to smooth the path (often unnecessarily) for their countrymen to enter the country.

There are many snakes in the grass for the unwary in ANY society.

BILLIE...
welcome to 'point 1' on the One Nation immigration policy :) yes..it was POPULATION.

The Author said:

[From a pure economic standpoint, immigration supplements our labour market with much-needed skills.]

Check.. as long as they can speak, read and write ENGLISH.

Then:

[In a deeper sense, immigration is valuable because it weaves new threads into our cultural tapestry]

Check..YES.. a few threads.. NOT HALF THE BLANKET... I don't wish to see Skippy's picture on that tapestry becoming a PIG (no offense chinese brethren :) or a MOnkey..or the symbol for the MOON GOD.

Note the word 'OUR'.. its crucial to understand the rest of the sentence. At least that recognizes that WE have a culture.....
So, adding a thread or 2 here and there won't deface poor Skippy..
But if those threads blot out his tail...he can't hop properly...

Then this DEUZY..

[Neighbourhood-level analysis also throws up a startling finding: trust is lower in ethnically diverse neighbourhoods]

Well..stone the blardi crows mate I don't have a Harvard degree.. an MPA or a PHD, but crikey, ..that one is as plain as the nose on Pinokio's face ! (after the lies)

So....its "STARTLING" is it ? Not to me or anyone who has lived in a multi tribal/racial environment..SPECially after the 'other' mob cut off ur water..and another (of that same mob) had been delegated to come and slaughter all 'our mob' during a particular rebellion. [He makes up for not being able to do that by cutting buffalo throats each morning and selling the meat.]

Worrrrd to the MCists... its only startling for those with little life experience and next to zero common sense and the idealism of a 17yr old.

Immigration has been good for Australia; Italian and Chinese migration especially has been very rewarding for everyone and stands out as a success story. Lebanese Muslim migration has turned it all upside down. There needs to be a total halt to all Muslim immigration apart from Turkey. Hopefully the Turks will be able to weave a few non-secular threads through our Islamic Community and bring them into the modern world.

An interesting dissertation Andrew, apart from the fact that you have also been seduced by the mantra that we need to have migration to succeed economically. Billie, Sage and Sille seem to sum it all up fairly well, and once again Boaz has some useful points. Pity about Leigh.
I would have thought that "Neighbourhood-level analysis also throws up a startling finding: trust is lower in ethnically diverse neighbourhoods" would have been self-evident. Perhaps you need to get about more.
GuyV What you say is only too true. Who was the lawyer in the Aboriginal legal service?
.

Andrew Leigh's study also highlights the irrationality of making trust decisions about people based on their ethnicity.

How is it rational to trust a stranger of your ethnicity more than a stranger not of your ethnicity? Or to trust somebody you know with different ethnicity less than a stranger of your own ethnicity? Or to trust two people you know differently because one shares your ethnicity and one does not?

Isn't the most rational approach to trust people based on whether or not they've earnt your trust through their actions towards you?

Anybody who, consciously or unconsciouly, allows ethnicity to influence their trust judgements about others is in for a whole world of hurt, be it in business, relationships or just daily living. Because they are allowing their very important decisions about whether to assign or withhold trust on spurious grounds that have nothing to do with whether the person is actually trustworthy.

Still, Andrew's study gives me some nice tips if I ever feel like becoming a con-artist. I'll just choose a nice WASPish neighbourhood where, if Andrew's study is to be believed, there'll be plenty of willing suckers ready to trust me because I'm of their ethnicity. Toot-sweet!

By the way, here's a great way all those people who are worried about overpopulation of Australia can help: leave.

And for all you "turtles" who don't trust our ethnically diverse society, here's another bit of rhetoric that usually emanates from your camp, and which I'm quite happy to throw back at you: If you don't like it here, leave.

Andrew's study probably has some anthropological interest in that it is further evidence, as if any were required that human beings, like all other primates, seem to instinctively regard with suspicion the primates from the next valley. What a staggering finding. Or, as Men's Health Magazine puts it - "They got a grant for THIS?"

:-)

Dear Mercurious.. I see I have still some work to do, in order to bring you fully into the fold of enlightened white people :) dig dig..
well..enlightened ANY people of course.

You made a good point..and credit where credit is due.. people DO build trust across ethnic barriers,... this is a reality of business and social interaction. BUT.. the type of trust referred to in the article is not that kind I feel..its about how much you trust a different ethnicity to stick up for YOU if you are getting the rough end of the discrimination or violence stick.
You saw what happened in Yugoslavia, happy neighbours one minute and raging militants the next.. 'the tribe' old son.. is very real.

Most of what you said sits best in the lecture halls and coffee shops of left wing and humanist sociology courses. Its an unteneble ideal which sounds good but never or rarely works.

You are now almost up to speed as a young jedi.. a few more posts from me should give you readiness for a light sabre of your own :)

All immigration to Australia should cease, and those people already here who are not citizens should be repatriated. And, quite frankly, I would like to see some of those who have taken out citizenship removed also.

It's a tragedy that we have the pathetic and gutless politicians that we have.

Heck Leigh, why stop there. Go for the descendants of those wascally immigrants too.
Fathers, daughters sons, remove everyone that has any connection to being an immigrant.

Wait a mo... that would mean, yep, pretty much everyone except aboriginals.

But that isn't what you meant, is it?

I can understand people being worried about incohesion, but what you're referring to is far more vast. You appear to dislike all immigrants solely on the basis that they've immigrated here and are different. You're not being specific at all, you're simply saying get rid of all immigrants.

Well, I'm afraid the term for that is racism, plain and simple.

Whats more, your suggestion isn't only racist, it's also incredibly, amazingly, stupidly unpractical in the amount of harm it would cause to the economy, to Australias reputation, to our skills base, to our international relations, to the very fabric of our society.

You don't analyse the issue or come up with solutions; the mantra, I hate immigrants just comes back.

Your suggestion is dumb. Moronic in fact. And just, well, nasty.
I'll leave it at that, and bid good day to you sir.

Boazy: "... I see I have still some work to do, in order to bring you fully into the fold of enlightened white people :) dig dig.."

Yawn.

Leigh: "All immigration to Australia should cease, and those people already here who are not citizens should be repatriated."

Zzzzzz.

I am constantly amazed that eloquent, educated, well read people like, for want of an example Andrew Leigh, can be succered in to believing the economy crap.

"We need immigration to keep the (untouchable on a pedestal) ECONOMY going or it will fall over and we will all die"

What absolute crap! If we intelligent people can't work out a system which will work within our replenishable resource limits we are doomed. And why? because we believe what the advertising guru's for banks and real estate companies tell us.

What has this to do with immigration? Heaps! Everyone on the planet can NOT live in Australia, Germany, The US or any other 'First World' country for that matter. When are we going to see what is going on and do something that will encourage people to stay in their country of origin. Education is the answer. Free education for people from third world countries and send them back with support mechanisms built in to enhance what they have learned. Difficult, you bet, impossible, you bet, but we can not keep heading down this road or the whole world will look like Egypt in less than 100 years.

Spend our money on improving these countries so they can stand up by themselves and we will all be better off and better regarded for the effort.

Academics are a constant worry to me. I wonder how some can be so well educated and lack practicality and common sense. This auther is no exception.

He says "A spate of studies suggest that continued high levels (of immigration) will most likely bring a raft of economic and social benifits". Wrong, wrong, wrong. Studies here show that the opposite is the most likely outcome. Benefits of high immigration are dubious at the best. Social impact is to lower the quality of life for citizens.

He also says "Lower immigration would impose an economic cost, barring businesses from importing much needed skills". Wrong again!
Shortage of skilled labour here is a result of poor planning and committment by Governments and business. Ethically, what right do we have to poach skilled people from poorer countries, that need their skilled workers far more than we do. We have to train our own.

He appears to argue for high Immigration, with diversity yet conceeds that the effects of diversity is less trust in communities.
He believes we can overcome the trust factor by educating the population.

This bloke needs a good dose of practicality or a real job in the real world.

Hooray! Perhaps all is not lost – if the tired old wimp, Howard, eventually stands aside for Peter Costello.

Costello said today that certain people with dual citizenship who do not work for Australia instead of against it should have their Australian citizenship stripped from them.

Pendulums eventually swing the other way and, although it is taking a lot of time, the MC/PC madness infecting Australia must be swept aside eventually

Are these new threads fire resistant? Lets hope so, for their sake.

The history of this country is based on bringing out immigrants for maximising profits and exploitation of the land. Briefly, in order to colonise the country a very cheap source of labor was required with minimum rights. In Britain, a colonial policy squarely aimed at those most suitable for hard work was drawn up and deportation laws enacted. As well, in tandem, there was the inclusion of the murderous policy from the Colonial Office in London to clear aboriginals off the land.This policy would later be ratified so that there were no future claims on the land.
After the Chinese immigrants did most of the backbreaking work on the railways, a capaign was whipped up to demonise them; (the white Australia policy) many were hung and others fled inland to work on sheep properties subject to the most menial slave type conditions.
The government policy is bring out immigrants to work under the most minimal wages and conditions, as well as, creating a surplus or reserve army of workers to depress wages and keep them low. Moreover, when it is convenient, the governments both Labor and Liberal have a long sordid history of scapegoating immigrants for either some of the ills in society or to cover up for precisely what the politicians are doing.
Through the very practise the politicians carry out this creates a lot of anxiety in society and this anger is often diverted or manipulated outwards by blaming others, and instituting fear and ignorance. The politicians laugh about this and describe it as a 'series of buttons you press' to get a certain reaction. Racism is in reality a tool used to create divisions in society - to divide the most powerful force in history the working class.

"Its difficult to see how people from different histories can trust each other without considerable effort being put in to build a common identity." (Billie)

Agree with this part totally. My take is that as soon as attempts to do this are made - in short - assimilation - that is labelled 'racist'.

Although the author points out the problems America faces, it is intersting that immigrants generally feel greater loyalties to America (where greater efforts at assimilation are made) than immigrants in European countries feel there - many polled in Britain don't feel this attachment at all.

People also happily comply with the rules when they are black & white & inflexible. No one questions the (even often unequal) rules in Arabia (where I have lived), China, Japan, Singapore, because everyone knows it's set in stone and they just get on and do what needs to be done. There is also a respect for local customs, no matter how odd they are (eg public beheadings in Saudi Arabia - people don't bat an eye-lid anymore - 'oh that's the way things are done round here' with a wry smile).

But when you tell people systems are flexible & negotiable, depending on how loud your pressure group, this breeds uncertainty & lowers trust. Groups become more bolshy, more hunkered down, & 'we know our rights' (but not our responsibilities) attitude. Ask any teacher how to run a classroom & they will tell you democracy breeds uncertainty breeds chaos. When rules are inflexible, non-negotiable, but fair, & the emphasis is not on individual rights, not on group rights, but the rights of the class, things run a LOT more smoothly. It's a happy & productive class.

Continual talk of racism makes people think & feel more racist. As long as we have equal rights (& yes in Australia we are far ahead of most other countries - are some people getting that? - you're right Boazy, some need to travel, not as a tourist, but foreign worker), halas - just get on with your daily business.