Jon “And FINALLY we have the real agenda of climate change! It is not about the climate, it's about implementing social and political change: climate change is the ultimate tool of the socialist revolution!”

I suspect you are right. Having failed on the economic argument the “soft underbelly” of society is the science of environment, and modeling of same, with models which lack the reliability which comes from honing accuracy over time.
It started with the green movement and has polluted the broader thinking to now infect the “universalists”.

Julatron “well lets establish a level playing field and start scrapping the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies for the australian coal industry”

I would agree, scrap all subsidies and leave consumers to make up their own mind how they would spend what is presently stolen in unjustified taxes. Not only the coal industry but public transport too.

I'd like to put this very important and useful discussion about prices in context.

1. Many parts of the world pay a lot more for their electricity than someone in an Australian capital city. Norkfolk island has electricity prices of 0.44 AUD/kWh based upon diesel. There are markets for solar power as diesel fuel increases in price.

2. Historical prices are interesting. I found a article on the US electricty industry (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/chg_stru_update/appa.html). It says that in nominal terms (unadjusted for inflation) the price for electicity in the US was as follows:
- 1882 24c/kWh (the very start of utility companies)
- 1900 17c/kWh
- 1930 5.6 c/kWh
- 1942 3.73 c/kWh

Adjusting for inflation the decreases would be far more impressive.

3. The price for electricity is not constant and this is hidden from domestic and small commercial accounts. In Australia, medium sized commerical PEAK retail costs are 20c/kWh. The average wholesale* price of power is 3 to 4c/kWh, but during peak times it regularly gets above 12c/kWh. When serious problems occur with the grid, the price goes up to $10/kWh. These are absorbed by the electricty retailers. (http://www.nemmco.com.au)

(*by wholesale, I mean the market price of generation at the power station. Transmission and admin is a larger percentage of the retail price in most cases.)

From the DRUDGE REPORT:

HOUSE HEARING ON 'WARMING OF THE PLANET' CANCELED AFTER SNOW/ICE STORM
HEARING NOTICE
Tue Feb 13 2007 19:31:25 ET

The Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality hearing scheduled for Wednesday, February 14, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. in room 2123 Rayburn House Office Building has been postponed due to inclement weather. The hearing is entitled “Climate Change: Are Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Human Activities Contributing to a Warming of the Planet?”

The hearing will be rescheduled to a date and time to be announced later

“Ultimate tool of the socialist revolution”? Is this getting out of hand or what?

Julatron I’m taking a holiday from this thread, last refuge for a fading minority of barely-aware uber-sceptics and leftie-baiters. Their complaining about dealing with today’s realities is a bit like complaining about the weather. Let ‘em.