TRTL
you make some good points. But scratch beneath and we see more.

Rudd and Howard, and even Peter Garret, (who I saw singing along with or amen-ing what was said), were at a Church service which is traditional for the opening of Parliament. I cannot vouch for it, but I'd guess Tony Abbot was also present along with most of the rest of the varied flock. I would also guess that the service was structured to be 'pan' or 'non' denominational, to cater for the spread of Catholics and Protestants. Abbot Catholic, Rudd (former RC) and Howard Anglican, Costello Baptist.

Clearly, Christian tradition is VERY much a part of our socio/cultural/political landscape and the dangers you point out are indeed possible IF.... one demonination acquires supreme power in a political sense. I have a sneaky feeling Tony Abbots condemnation of Rudd is more about "You slacker.. you were once one of the TRUE Church (RC) but now look what you have done (turned Anglican)"

I worry about Anglicanism, RCism as much as I worry about Islam-ism.
Because all of the above are linked closely to 'structured state related religion'.

I'm happy with the present denominational mix at the big end of political town, as it symbolizes and guarantees social harmony by showing representation of all traditions.

But given how embedded our Christian heritage is, I find it virtually seditious that the Quran can 'curse' Christians for believing Christ is the Son of God. "May Allah destroy them" (Chapter 9:30)
Destroy who ? Oh nothing much, just ALL our political leaders in that Church and who share the belief that Christ is the Son of God!

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that Church where our politicians gathered when Abu Izzadeen rushed in and chanted "You are all cursed by Allah and Islam will reign in Australia just like UK"
Yep..that would be a sight to behold.
The scary thing about that scenario..is.. its REALITY (for UK) not fantasy. http://antidhimmi321.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html
Note the Location ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/24/nterr24.xml
Please ensure you actually look at these mate.

Hmm... it's a complex issue there DB

I'm glad we can agree that religion shouldn't be institutionalised in government.

In relation to Mr Izzadeen, I note your point, but we're entering a grey territory where things aren't necessarily as black and white as at first glance. As you say, 'scratch the surface' and see what is revealed beneath.

This man appears to be inciting violence, and to praise these bombings is disgusting.

To the first, I say, something needs to be done. To the second, I say, it disgusts me, but he should be allowed to do it if he wants.

We need to ensure that we don't act too hastily, merely because we find it offensive - that opens the way for partisan views to wield altogether too much power.

For actual incitements to violence, yes, I warrant there is a need for control.

We do need to ensure we don't go too far however. Were he just preaching the Tony Blair was the real terrorist and a general hatred of the west, well, I can be disgusted by it, but if we take the strongarm approach to anyone who professes a dislike for government, where do we stop? People chanting they hate the government? Or just those wearing turbans chanting they hate the government?

Of course its not about the money. How could anyone be so silly. Its a about the love and the feeeeeeewings.

Just keep having kids and hand them the bills. They'll understand.

Well Henry, or whatever your name is, crank up your little polling machine and get out and do some more, real and relevant research.Start with the marginal seats,give a bit of time to the western suburbs,note the size of the private debt,look at the lending habits of major financial institutions and take note of how 'wealth' in Australia is being created. Look at water and the decaying state of infrustructure.Apart from the members of the comfortable middle class with whom you appear to consort many other members,following kids over-board,Hicks,water and other multiple lies, see Rudd as better than Howard.
Events will conspire to cause Howard to loose his nerve ( note his recent backflips ), couple that with the fact that he is taking advice from fewer and fewer people ( incredably he increasingly believes in his own judgement and intellect ) and we have grounds for optimism.China will stuff money down our throat no matter who is in power.Only you, Dixon and Mansfield believe in the'good manger of the economy'crap.And how can Howard,on the one hand, be a good manager of the economy and,on the other,a bad manager of the environment, defence and foreign affairs? Yep,Howard is like Menzies,disliked by the majority.Will the swingers vote for him?Do your darndest Henry.
Bruce Haigh

It appears to me that this Henry is a person lacking any backbone and more is of the type to sell even his grandmother's bones as long as it gives him another cent.

Here we have all this about the strategy of John Howard, and how he could possibly use Hicks to get out, but where is the relevance to John Howard’s criminal conduct?
It is simply that if we purportedly can have a more financial secure income then the destruction of democracy is not relevant?

Howard and his cohorts invaded another sovereign nation Iraq, despite that Howard had no prerogative powers to lawfully do so, but it appears to me that Henry is not concerned about this.
Neither so it appears to me that constitutionally no person can be detained/deported but by a JUDICIAL DECISION of a State Court, which the Framers of the constitution labeled “DUE PROCESS OF LAW”.

THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS WE HAVE IS BECAUSE SO MANY BEFORE US SACRIFICES MUCH TO ENSURE WE COULD ENJOY THIS. If they had been more concerned about their own financial future they may never have done so.

We must keep in mind that any Government that places itself above the law must not only be kicked out of office but its members be charged, and placed before the Courts.

The moment we accept for financial comfort the constitutional abuses now persisted with by John Howard then we have lost any credibility and we are no better then any other law breaker, as we have an obligation and duty to ensure that anyone who abuse /misuse powers is held accountable before a Court of law.

See also my website www.schorel-hlavka.com

I rather have a secure future for my children and grandchildren then be concerned with some temporary financial security, which often in any event turn out to be another lie by a politician to promise something they do not intent to do anyhow.

I take Col Rouge's well made point as individuals we can make mistakes on a smaller scale than a government, however governments set fiscal policy for the collective population, which determines whether or not homelessness increases or decreases etc. Runner, even though I am a strong Catholic, I see no place for the Churches in government, see: separation of powers.

Against Howard, been there too long, without making a positive difference to our lives, for Howard he has $10.8 billion in the bank to buy our votes...again. Against Rudd, he has so far lacked policy description, for Rudd, he is genuine opposition for the first time in Howard's 11 years, he has the polls going his way, it will be an interesting year. Australia badly needs urgent action on climate change, and more infrastructure to store water, added with hydro electricity, it was fine with the Snowy River scheme, we need more of the same, without water we die.

It is outrageous that Howard hasn't built water storage capacity during the drought, with his surpluses, now when the drought does break, we will fill the water storage capacity we had in 1996, although our population has increased, a scandal in itself.