This is a great story Stephen, not just for the way it shows the pride and dignity of the Namok family but also for your own conscientious efforts to correct an error of fact.

I'd be interested in an explanation of how the Uluru name change came about. I fear the worst in the case of Zenadth Kes.

Stephen said:

[Many of our high profile Indigenous athletes today also chose to make statements of pride in their racial origin]

Which of course.. is basic 'racism' .. ethnic or racial "pride" is based on the idea of separateness and superiority ? It's also about a partucular understanding of History.

The reality of Australian history, is that there was a large influx of white pella's who did what every incoming race/tribe did to other tribes, and dispossesed to a large degree, wiped out to a considerable degree, abused, fought with etc.... until out of all that, with all its rights and wrong, we now have "Australia".

History is difficult to reverse, and those seeking to do so should count the soldiers and weapons very carefully first.
Robert Mugabe is one trying. Interestingly, in his 'reversal' of past inustice, his regime is open to the very same 'wrongs and rights' as our heritage depends on.

Flags ? I have GRAVE reservations about any indigenous person waving any flag which is not the official Australian one at any major public event. I would rather they did not compete if they wish to do that.

In this day and age, if we cannot ALL view ourselves as 'Australians' first and ethnic or historical that second, then we are just the Hatfields and McCoys, Croats and Serbs, Macedonians and Greeks etc etc etc.

So, let me make my position abundantly clear on this. NO indigenous flag. But.. I have no problem with dual language signs, where such signs should be in English on top with Indigenous name below.
Why ? Simple, all our public expressions of nationhood should present the power and historical realities which have made us so.

Any Aboriginal or Torres strait Islander who cannot see themselves as part of the bigger 'Australia' may as well grab an AK 47, and a rocket launcher and retreat into the bush and try to change it by force because there is no other way it ever would.

So, our indigenous Australian brothers.. get over this thing please and regard ourselves as ONE NATION.

Be Quiet for once Boaz,

It still pains me to think of Bernard Namok as having passed on.

I can clearly remember sitting in class 8A with Bernard and others, (I think the teacher was Mr Martin).

Bernard was showing us the drawings and sketches he had done. He talked about his dream that he would one day design the Torres Strait Flag.

Bernard was a totally decent person and he was fortunate to have been able to realise his dream.

It is just so tragic that Bernard left us so early in his life.

So Boaz for goodness sake, show some respect and be quiet and let us remember the achievements and dreams of people such as Bernard with the respect they deserve.

Hi Aka...
I didn't mean any disrespect for any departed soul or their dream mate. Sorry if you felt I did. On the contrary, I'm trying to avoid any sentimental drawback in assessing a very important issue.

Looking at such a dream, on a human level, sure, we can emphathise and sympathise, but lets put that aside for a moment, and ask why Bernard had such a dream ? I'm genuinely curious. Is it to promote a Torres Strait nationalism ? Please help me out here.

The title of the article is 'reclaiming.....their heritage'. Does that mean some kind of sovereignty ? Thats what flags are about arn't they ? Is it about ethnic identity ? ..well I have reservations about how that would pan out in the long run, if you use as a benchmarck any Islander community in the area.. Bouganville, Solomons PNG.etc.

Why would you want me to just be quiet ?

Nice article, Stephen. Too little recognition is given to the cultural heritage of Torres Strait Islanders, as distinct from Aboriginal people.

Boaz: "The reality of Australian history, is that there was a large influx of white pella's who did what every incoming race/tribe did to other tribes, and dispossesed to a large degree, wiped out to a considerable degree, abused, fought with etc.... until out of all that, with all its rights and wrong, we now have "Australia"."

I guess you could call that the 'might is right' reading of one of the more shameful aspects of Australia's history.

Stephen Hagan: "As Mr Sagigi so eloquently put it, '… they came with a Bible and told us to close our eyes and when we opened our eyes the white man had taken away our land'."

Boaz, as a Christian Brethren missionary who wishes to sweep cultural diversity in Australia under the carpet, would take the former view, wouldn't he? I agree that he should keep quiet on this issue, unless of course he wants to say "sorry".

There are all kinds of flags. The Boy Scouts have a flag. I have a Clan flag and a Coat of Arms. Let these people call themselves and where they live what they will and lets not go on as if the world is at an end. I happen to like just as many of "them" as I do "whites". Racism is never going to go away. It just shouldn't be used as a social tool or a means of contending against another.

CJ. this time you put your foot in it.....

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=130

Is where I lay into the Queensland government, AND the Church with hobnailed boots.
You don't know of this thread because I was the ONLY person who made any contribution. I put 2 posts there. In the first I expose the abuse by the Government and the Church.
Am I sorry for what happened ? How could any fair minded person not be ? What can be done about it ? After bringing 47 tribes together and stripping them of their connection to tribal and ancestral cultural cues, not a lot.

To me, the 'human' outcome of such a dog act can only be doom and gloom.

In my second post, I highlighted the incredible DIFFERENCE among those who have truly found Christ among the Cherbourg Aboriginals.
I'm not talking about those who are now 'obedient to the church', but those who know the daily reality of Christ in them.

Perhaps you should read those posts b4 ripping into me here ?

Final point. I am very aware of cultural diversity here.. and I have presented a means of creating a new and harmonious Australia through intermarriage, yes.. removing that diversity as far as possible.
I also point out that the only barriers to such a goal are 'racist' ones !

Boazy, I think it's truly wonderful that you had a self-righteous rant about Cherbourg back in October. But why have you been so silent about all those other 'missions' and 'concentration camps' (e.g. Palm Island) before and since? What have you actually ever done personally with Aboriginal people in Australia?

Are you even aware that the Torres Strait Islanders who are the subject of this article are culturally distinct from mainland Aboriginal peoples, and that their experience of colonisation was quite different from, say, the poor bastards who survived the frontier brutalities and were herded into places like Cherbourg?

Ironically, the missionisation of the Torres Strait Islands that directly facilitated their attempted expropriation (until Mabo anyway) is still referred to by indoctrinated Islanders as "the coming of the light". Fortunately, it seems that they are beginning to come to their senses.

Torres Strait Island people's culture is a unique and valuable part of Australia's cultural mosaic despite a century and a half of Christianity as handmaiden to Australian colonialism. If evangelical missionaries like Boaz want to hijack a thread that celebrates this unique and special part of Australia's heritage, then they should get their facts straight before letting fly so insensitively.

But as ever, old Brother Boazy is never one to let mere reality get in the way of a good rant, is he?

CJ. .. If you want to hijack the perceptions of the Torres Strait Islanders about Christianity and turn it into an anti colonialist rant...then.. :) see where I'm going there ?

I don't deny for a moment the wonderful diversity existing with the TSIs. And regarding Palm Island.. my views on that are the same as for the Qld Government over Cherbourg.

What have I done for Aboriginals here ? Not much. I've made enquiries to Aboriginals in Melbourne about certain matters, but apart from that, little. I did give the prime of my life from 28 to 40 to service among indigenous people in Borneo, so I think that qualifies me to at least speak about indigenous issues here. Only one life CJ, cannot be everywhere at once.

A small but important point about celebrating heritage. Celebration is not far from 'ethno-nationalism' which in turn is not far from vulnerability to socio political exploitation over past grievances.

Remember one of our posters who said regarding Aboriginals "The Radicals haven't taken up weapons.....yet"

Just because one groups historical experience is different from anothers, does not lessen the need to integrate them as far as possible with the whole of Australia does it ? I would just add the rider that there should not be an active program of cultural 'weakening', rather an active program of Australian-ness.

I doubt they will accept anything which is too foreign to them, and rightly so. But over time, one would hope they feel more a part of 'us' and we of them.

Boaz there is a huge difference between a racist and someone or some groups, like Indigenous peoples around the world, that have been belittled, disposed, humiliated, murdered even and taunted on racial and cultural supremacist grounds since colonisation asserting that that process of dehumanisation, exploitation and putdown didn't work. It, for me, says: “We survived.” It says: “We will not be your victims.”

Fly those Indigenous flags. For me, they symbolise the survival of compassion and humanitarian ideals over those of acquisition, monetary gain and achievement at other's expense.

We are one nation Boaz. The only way to have a nation is to not deny others within that nation their history, culture and individuality? To embrace difference. Your “non-racist” way is to deny this difference (or disregard it) and insist on compliance with some vague notion of common ideals. Ideals that conveniently profit those that have already profited from mostly unlawful, immoral, unethical ways with racism one aspect behind the reasons this betrayal of goodness has happened. That those ideals always seem to see Indigenous peoples and other different thinking people being denied their ideals, their culture and being coerced or forced into accepting what is ideal for the establishment and the monoculturalists escapes your reasoning.

My flag is the Australian flag. But that doesn’t give me the right to deny others their flag and indeed, given the circumstance and the unresolved issues in relation to the dispossession of Australia’s Indigenous population I see nothing wrong those peoples’ maintaining their links with their lands and expressing their solidarity and love of the land through the Indigenous flag. If that means that there is a nation within a nation then that is the way it has to be. So what?
Just because New Zealand is another nation doesn't mean I am a racist for not sharing their love for sheep. Your logic is flawed.

One Nation is really Boaz Nation. It's premise is that we think the same and salute the one idea (Boaz's). Let’s just do what Boaz wants and all will be fine. Sorry mate – disagree.

David , you're going to have to check your compass.
Two flags only are required for Australia if we want to live in Peace and Happiness - an Invaders' Flag and the Aboriginal one.

["Mr Sagigi said that his people felt the time was now right for a name change from Torres Strait, named after Luis Vaes De Torres, a Spanish Explorer who discovered Torres Strait in 1606 on his way from Espiritus Santos in the New Hebrides, to Zenadth Kes."]

-- A change of name seems reasonable to me, if that is what the community votes for. Thought it would just a matter of voting and then partitioning for the change. Good luck! Hope the Islands succeed.

--Think we could do with a few less Royal connonations too. "Queens"-land and a zillion George Streets.

["Many of our high profile indigenous athletes today chose to make statements about pride in their RACIAL (emphasis added) origin."]

-- Substitute "Ayrian" for "indigenous", and, we have the wrap of the German team at the 1938 Munich Olympics.

Hoped we had left racial supremacy behind. Seemingly, not. Albeit, common sense dictates, white supremacists must have their counterparties.

Else, enjoyed an interesting article.

ERROR:

Oops. Berlin 1936.