Gekko, as TurnRightTurnLeft pointed out, I hardly think that one article and a handful of comments is the same as me 'making a name for myself'. I notice you don't level such claims at people who agree with you.

Your rebuttal:

"Turnrightthenleft, my comment was directed at Audrey's style of reasoning and argument, which is reminiscent of many daily columnists, both left and right. That is, play the man and not the ball. Her response IN THIS THREAD [my emphasis] has been to either idolise those she agrees with, or demonise those she doesn't. I just thought I'd return fire :)"

I've written two comments in this thread. The first congratulated Kerryn on what I thought was a great article, before going on to demonstrate some of what I think are the incorrect accusations levelled at teachers and the education system.

The second comment was in response to what I thought was self inflated anedoctal evidence provided by wre. Having been witness, but not party to, many of the university systems s/he's talking about as recently as last year, I found it amusing to see the exaggeraton taken regarding this 'infiltration' of marxist academic policy.

I'm bemused by the speed in which you sought, in amongst a sea of varying opinions, 'to take me down a peg or two'. I notice you don't apply similar criticism to SCOTTY, whose extremely generalised 'argument' frankly beggars belief.

As for being hoping to be picked up by a national paper, although the quality of some columnists suggests otherwise, I highly doubt News Ltd is basing their selection process these days on the publication of one article and a few lengthy opinions.

Audrey Apple

The very point that you're missing (alluded to within my 'self inflated anecdotal' previous posts-which you failed to meaningfully respond to anyway), is that the academia and educational think tanks in this country have generally lost touch with what mainstream Australians expect form our education system.

While 'intellectuals' like yourself patronise and belittle the community, all the community wants from the education system is children that turn 18 with reading and writing skills that reflect the fact they've just spent 12 years being educated. Why is this too much to ask? Why should a child be asked to evaluate abstract and quite frankly bizarre philosophies when calculating the interest on a home loan, learning the language of 200 million neighbours, or reading a job application is beyond them? When statistics irrefutably show that literacy is on the decline, surely the curriculum is deserving of criticism and adjustment.

Now before you call the above 'inflated' and 'anecdotal' misinformation, please don't deflect attention from those very real and reasonable questions.

The other major issue that needs to be addressed is the under valuing of the teaching profession in respect to salaries. By way of anecdote (just for you AA), I know for a fact that not one person with a graduating score in the top 25% of my year 12 class went onto become a teacher. I'd be interested if anyone knows of any studies or surveys that have taken place in this regard. The sooner the salaries of teachers are closely aligned with those of doctors, lawyers and miners (!), the better.

If ever we needed proof that the Leftoid influences in feminism are railing too far from the tracks of reality, this is it. I say to Goldsworthy, that as far as i can tell, the Left are rapidly establishing a monological order, and it is a Marxologists world view. If you don’t understand it, then try reading it, perhaps it well open your eyes to the reality of what Millennium movements are all about.

It is a sure certainty, the monologists in education cant help but dream of the fantasmagorical new order of things. Most displeased as they are with the current order, what with all thie wealth, the growth, the technology, and yes sadly enough, wars. Not that we have never had wars in our history. Wars have been fought over all sorts of things, even women. Perhaps in time, we will see a new world order where the matriarchy rules in a monocranistic, dynastical way, while the men are left in some Marxist struggle for survival. A sort of Darwinian, Feminised, post-construction post-modern Utopian based order in which men battle for survival, whilst women prance about preening and proselytising like Praying-mantasis.

Yes Ladies, you are reading this novel for the first time, here online in the real world of 2006. Not the dark ages, nor indeed early 20th century Eestern-europe or China.

Cont:

Which is where our education system run by the glorious states has its heads currently buried, it seems (cant think how they coulda been brainwashed). Goldsworthy, as imaginative as she is, is stuck on the monorail of Leftist logic. Proof being that all things wrong are the fault of that ole rat (in socialist/leftist/Maoist labelling terms) the rodent, the honourable Prime Minister, Mr John Howard. MP. Whereas, anything deemed socially suitable by our Leftoid moral guardians is but completely wonderful, graceful, tactile and certainly worthy of both publishing and emulating. And so the fourth estate gets its cake, and eats it too. Much to the dismay of the peasantry, who get neither.

So there is no point being all high and might about where education is heading, because ultimately, the states carry the burden. And they are all under Leftist Labor control. No cajoling of the facts here, it is Labors feminised finger-pointing that is doing the work of educating the young about monology. When all the world has to offer can be found online, and easily accessible for teaching and learning purposes, we find a rabid education sector, hijacked by the ugly Union movement, teaching only one way of thinking, Marxology.

The results are already coming home to roost. Our esteemed and enlightened ones need only look at the crime stats; in fact if one looks at the stats that characterise the health of the nation, one will find that all indicators are in the worrying zone. Crime and deviance is really out of control. And it is not connected to Central Government; at least not at this stage.

Audrey, don't flatter yourself. I singled you out because:

1. You were the first person to write a comment, and either implicitly or explicitly, you set the tone for the debate; and
2. In a subsequent comment, you chose to focus on wre's (supposed) hidden agenda (how postmodern of you).

In any event, let's not give this any more commentary. From now on, I won't make any direct reference to you, unless you invite such reference ;)

It is disingenuous of teachers to suggest that they are unwilling pawns in the education game. Firstly, a good proportion of the 'bureaucracy' of teaching are ex-teachers. Secondly, the teacher's union is composed (one assumes) entirely of teachers. Thirdly, there is a large gap between theory (i.e. the curriculum set down by the board) and implementation (i.e. what is taught by teachers in a classroom setting). So to claim teachers have no influence just doesn't wash.

On another point, Kerryn's article contains little reasoned argument. Snide remarks directed at those who oppose her viewpoint, suggestions that anyone who has not formally studied the humanities cannot offer a serious opinion on postmodernism, the old hoary argument about a lack of funds, the implication that parents and students are partly to blame. It's calculated not to provide a reasoned argument for the current curriculum, but to deflect the focus from a misguided curriculum and poor teaching back onto those who dare criticise (conveniently, the Howard government).

Kerryn also states that those who have studied the 'hard' subjects (I will out myself as the holder of a 'hard' science degree) have a certain disdain for the humanities. However, it's also true that many Cultural Studies academics have built their reputation by critiquing science as a discipline. Therefore, what was your point? That humanities scholars would not dable in a body of knowledge they arguably know little about? Trying to equate criticism of the secondary curriculum to a conspiracy by white male scientists isn't a reasoned argument. But then again, I would say that, wouldn't I? I must be constained by Western linear logic :)

Maybe instead of cultural studies and the humanities the kids should be taught the real truth about mankind .

All of mankind are not brothers. Biologically that’s a lie for a start.

Mankind is not going to avoid war by being tolerant and loving.

Teaching the kids that if they are tolerant of other races all the world will live in peace is a lie based on a misassumption that wars are about intolerance.

Wars are about food on the table and all the goodies in the shops and supermarkets (territorial resources).

Racism itself is caused by territorial hostility between tribes.

Truth in history to teach the kids-:

Territorial massacre of the Jews by the Germans
Territorial massacre of millions of Chinese by the Japanese over resources during great depression.
Territorial massacre in Somalia
Territorial massacre of Bosnians by the Serbs
Territorial massacre by one tribe against the other in Rwanda
Territorial massacre by Indonesian militia against East Timorese
Territorial terror war by IRA against british protestant settlers for control of Ireland
Territorial war between the American Indians and the white settlers
Territorial war between religious tribes in India when british pulled out
Territorial attacks by the indigenous people against the Chinese in the solomons
Territorial fight for control of country by Tamil Tigers
Territorial fight over the land between Jews and Arabs
Territorial fight between religious tribes Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq
Freedom fighters and suicide bombers are really fighting for territorial control.
Demands for sepratist states around the word e.g. Chechyna in Russia are really demands for territorial control.

It has been ever thus throughout the history of mankind the teaching of tolerance wont stop it . When animals fight over territory in the wild its not about intolerance so much as their need to survive and it is the same for humans. Animals don’t actually hate the other animal they just need the land for themselves and their progeny to survive.

Why not teach the kids the real truth instead of the way you wish it was.