"Today, thousands of volunteers are delivering Christmas hampers around Australia.

They are climbing the stairs to lonely bed-sits or stumbling along broken paths to overcrowded houses. The families they visit are living on the edge ..."

How could this possibly be in a Christian 'democracy' and 'rich country' such as ours?

"You’ve just been evicted because your rent has increased and now gobbles up over 40 per cent of your disposable income. You’ve just been told that your job no longer exists but that you can go on a contract. It’s 40 degrees, and the fridge has just died - you have no money, but you do have two hungry children. You’ve just been breached by Centrelink. These are the stories of the forgotten people, the blamed people. Over and over, though, we are told: “They have brought it on themselves.”

Evicted by whom? Ihncreased by Whom? Breached by Whom? Told by whom?

Why?

Who among us benefit or profit most from this appalling situation?

Why am I accused of being a 'communist' or worse by 'good people' in Vinnies and the many other burgeoning, instutionalised 'charities' when I question the pernicious system of such gross injustice and inequality (Capitalism) that marginalises and alienates so many decent Australians and millions worldwide?

Sowat asks : " Evicted by whom ?? Breached by whom "....It's no secret, sowat..

The current Government has a policy of " wiping out " the poor, disadvantaged and less strong. Every action of this Government is aimed at creating a massive wedge between haves and have-nots.There is no mercy given to anyone who cannot make the grade as subscribed to by Howard & Co. Anyone who falls short of the mark is to be vilified and earmarked for future eradication.

The fact that justice today is only available to those who can afford it is a general indication of the trend. Those with money can effectively derail justice by use of delays and tactics only available to those with the funds to do so. It's abhorrent; it's immoral, but it's perfectly alright if you have money.

I would love to be around in 50 -100 years time when oil and food are in short supply : let's see the rich ones eat their gold and million dollar paintings then.

It is good to see that those who are fighting everyday to help those in need, have to time to give hope and joy at christmas.

Also it is right that our pollies just remember who they are their to represent and it isnt the liberal/labor party's but the people.

So come on Australia it is time we sorted this buck passing and did something real.

Email:swulrich@bigpond.net.au
Australian Peoples Party

many times, especially at Christmas, I have been heartened by the efforts of the Vinnies, the Salvos, and all the other nameless ones who make a big effort to bring something to the needy. I have done it myself, and I know it did me more good than the good I did.

But the "system" is wrong that accumulates so much need and poverty.

Trouble is that other systems may well be wronger!

Whatever the polity we need kind hearts, sharers, people who find more joy in giving than receiving, to oil the works and lessen the burdens. But overall we to temper the self interest implicit in capitalism and human nature with the pleasure and security of community. Who are the "great", perhaps they are the ones who do good deeds quiety and unspokenly, rather than the often elected, or the ones who take lots of wickets, or sell a million records.

SOWAT... there is nothing wrong with questioning a system, but make sure your alternative actually works. You are only a commmunist if you follow Marx.

I strongly recommend you examine closely the social system of the ancient Israelites. (read the first 5 books of the Bible) you will find many strange things, including 'slavery' of an economic kind, but you will ALSO find something called a year of Jubilee, where all debts are cancelled. (each 7 yrs). You will also find that wealthy landowners were expected by divne decree NOT to harvest every skeric of grain, but were to leave some for the poor_and_alien_and_Fatherless to 'glean'.

I am a slave to the commonwealth bank in the same way many people were slaves in those days.. Most of what I do goes to pay the CBA for a mortgage. It takes 100% of my wifes pay and we try to live off mine.
Its not easy, but we are basically happy, even though living in our 7x9m shed with our 3 grown children.

Capitalism IS a flawed system. Responsible free enterprise is not.
Communism or even socialism is flawed because of the same problem faced by Capitalism 'Human Nature' and I have no apology for stating that it is because mankind is 'fallen' from Gods Grace that this is so.

To the extent that we allow the Christmas message to remind us that God DOES care, that He CAME in Jesus, and that his life ended tragically and painfully due TO that fallen nature we express each day, then to that extent we have a chance of social and personal renewal.

Christmas is a time of good will to all men yes, but it was not meant to be for a few days a year, rather for the whole of our lives.

Jesus said "I am the Good Shepherd, who lays down his life for his sheep" He took a towel and washed his disciples feet, "As the father has sent me, SO I send you!" he said. Therein you will find the only answer to the problems you raise.

Boaz-David. You are obviously an okay, caring bloke. But, it is time for Christian theologies to let go of Christmas. I suspect that for most Australians Christmas is a time to think about giving as well as receiving, time to make a gesture or two in the direction of charity, and to rekindle a bit of hope for peace and reconciliation. I doubt very much that those annual reminders have much to do with the Christian message anymore. Once there were campaigns to put Christ back into Christmas and get rid of Santa Claus. I say, lets keep Father Christmas central to the festival and downplay all that stuff about virgin birth and incarnation of God. The true spirit of Christmas is Australian values.

A WA newspaper headline - Pulpits Used for Political Attacks - shows poor credit to Christmas journalism.

The attacks from the Christian pulpit are justified enough to call them a ray of Christian enlightenment typifying The Sermon on the Mount, which so much gave the message of compassion of the true Jesus, a Holy message so much distorted thtough Western Christian history.

1, Our detention centre policies have shown some improvement, but the shame is that we have aped the policies of an angry angry US. However, treatment of David Hicks, is the most shocking, as the person appears more foolishly adventurous than radical. The real crime, is for us to be using the unfortunate person symbolically to justify our ties to America.

2. The Palestine-Israeli conflict was made worse by the US allowing Israel to go atomic. Social scientists have claimed that also with a build-up of fighter-bombers, the US herself has lost much favour globally, not only in the Third World, but home in America.

3. Regarding the mess in Iraq, first with the US not having the commonsense to put Saddam’s beaten military on the pay-role, instead to fulfil a terrorist role Saddam would now fully agree with - and the most horrible swad of military indecison culminating in the sacking of Rumsfeld, looks like George W’ Bush is being punished by a really sensible Good Lord up there for a change.

4. Fresh from a visit to the Middle East, Dr Williams, Britain’s Anglican spiritual leader as well as visiting Israel, is to be admired as the first cleric to admonish both Britain and America for deliberately forgetting the plight of the more than a million Coptic-type Christians in Iraq, their numbers now sadly depleted. Also it could be asked why our Australian Christian churches have not asked questions. Surely it is not about a non-belief in the Holy Trinity?

Fencepost,

The values of giving, peace, reconciliation and charity which you describe are Christian values. To separate them from the Christmas story through which they have been communicated across hundreds of cultures through two millennia would be to rob them of their depth and meaning. It is not necessary to believe in the literal truth of magi and a virgin birth to be moved by the power of this story of God become flesh in a helpless infant, born out of wedlock and far from home, wrapped in rags and laid in a cattle trough, the hope and saviour of the world. The guy in the red suit can’t compete with this!

To strip the Christmas story from Christmas would be to diminish it to the peculiarly hollow and unsatisfying blend of shallow goodwill and materialistic excess that it has become for secular westerners. You say, “the true spirit of Christmas is Australian values”. What an appalling thought. Not only does it insult all the other cultures that find ways to celebrate Christmas at least as authentically as we do, it also reduces something precious and profound to the banal sentiments and coerced conformity that the Government hopes to impose by questionnaire. Yuk.

John Falzon. I agree with the thrust of your item. Indeed the disadvantaged must be first priority otherwise we don't have a society.

The spirit of Xmas is not the birth of Jesus and the fables that go with it. Mainly it is an oppostunity to shop till you drop. Forced in many cases simply through guilt. Do recall that the choice of 25 December was convenient for those wanting to push a rekligion on to the pagans in the UK who celebrated a range of other Gods on that date. Jesus was born on another date, not 25 December so the whole "Xmas story" is false, simply based on dates.

Religion has no place in politics nor the reverse. Why? Both are based on lies and misconceptions, not facts or truth.

The real spirit of this season is shown by those that John mentions. Those that give of themselves for those who need it. That is the spirit our society must have every day, not just once a year.

Rhian, we seem to agree on the important values and so I imagine we could get along quite well together. And I think I concede that for many people, for many years, these values have been communicated through a Christian message. But that doesn't mean that the Christian message is the "owner" and source of these values. I hold them as a secular humanist, and I don't think that makes me any more shallow than those who support preposterous beliefs through their going along with them quietly - and I mean those bits of the Christmas story that you are quite ready to acknowledge as being hard to swallow in a literal way. Kindly, Fencepost

Christmas In Cooktown!

PART ONE:

I am HOMELESS.

The house has been sold from under me. A house I have partly renervated, a house I was desperately attempting to buy.

I have informed everyone we ought to about the crisis. I have spent the past two months and ALL OF XMAS house hunting.

PART TWO:

I drove into Cooktown from Marton to put my Newstart form in the local office Thursday 21st December as the date to be lodged.

At the Office I was given a number to ring in Mt Isa. I was told ......"the form will not be lodged unless I make this call". I was told this is a new rule? I was both surprised and shocked.

I rang this number in Mt Isa 7 times between Thursday and Friday to verify that I had put my form in Cooktown.

Seven times... there was NO ANSWER from this office.

I then rang our local Centerlink Office in Cooktown three times to ask what would happen. They said they can't do anything because these are the new rules.

I then rang a pyscholgist at Centerlink to report the problem. They also didn't know of the new rules.

I WAS CUT OFF THE DOLE For NO GOOD REASON

NO MONEY OVER XMAS.

No explanation from anyone at Centerlink of NEW RULES - CONDITIONS - NOTHING!

On December 28th I drove into town.... alass.....our local office was closed. I went to tell them I had not recieved my Centerlink allowance.

What has Australia come to?

Part Three:

I have written some twenty odd letters to Centerlink, Job Find and CHR over the past years for their applied assistance.

I have still not recieved one reply.

I have rung them over 200 times over the past four years from Cooktown, always being told to put it to them in writing.

I have campaigned in the local press.

All get in return is their deaf-ears and more rudness.

http://www.miacat.com

Fencepost

Yes, we probably share many values in common. And I’d agree that Christianity doesn’t “own” its characteristic values, though it has been extremely influential in their dissemination.

But you’re seriously missing the point about Christmas if you believe it can only be either a misguided commemoration of an event that did not actually happen, or an abstract celebration of admirable values.

Stories are powerful ways of communicating messages about values, hope, identity, moral action, etc, and the relationships between them. It’s not only religions that use them – the “Australian values” you advocate are often articulated in terms of Ned Kelly and ANZAC, Kokoda and Eureka. The core of historic truth of these stories has been embellished, simplified and selected in the telling to suit their primary modern purpose of explaining who we are, where we came from and what we value. The fact that, for example, John Simpson Kirkpatrick (of Gallipoli donkey fame) was not the all-Aussie hero we’re sometimes led to believe in no way diminishes the validity of the Simpson myth and the values it expresses.

Similarly, but to a far greater extent, bible stories such as Eden, the exodus and the virgin birth may not describe actual events with historical accuracy, but are nonetheless far more effective in communicating profound truths about human nature and existence than any number of psychology or ethics texts.

Through its stories, the Christian perspective on Christmas articulates and integrates celebration, contemplation, joy and wonder, the concern for neighbour, anger at injustice, gracious giving and receiving, and a concern for the poor and marginalised. The stories also ground the values they transmit in real lives, priorities and actions. I believe this is why so many of the organisations such as Vinnies providing practical and emotional support at Christmas (and throughout the year) have religious affiliations. I’m not saying all Christians are charitable, or that only Christians are charitable – clearly this is not the case. But secular society at large (not you personally) seems to struggle to match the meaning and motivation that Christians find in Christmas.

Dear Rhiann,

I'm sorry but the problem is that the Christian Churches, as for many religions, do not practice what they preach. To try and do so for one or two short seasons is hypocritical and simply exposes what many know. That is, to quote your own words, :

"The core of historic truth of these stories has been embellished, simplified and selected in the telling to suit their primary modern purpose of explaining who we are, where we came from and what we value. ",

thus burying what truth there may have been in the history of the Christian Churches. What is the core of historic truth? The Bible has been changed so many times, for so many political purposes that any truth is no longer a part of the stories used.

The essence of truth is to present the facts, as proven. Not embellishing, simplifying and selecting bits of that truth. Once that takes place the motive for those changes is clear. It is not to further the spiritual advancement of mankind, it is to promote the motives, political usually, of certain individuals throughout history.

By the way there is nothing factual that explains where we came from, just more fables, not facts, fables. You state yourself that Bible stories are more effective in communicating profound truths. Why is that? Is it because the profound truths are not facts, just beliefs?Show and tell those profound truths please.

RobbyH

Actually, the Christian bible has basically not changed since the canon was fixed in about 400AD, although we have various translations and some minor variations in the detail of early manuscripts. How we interpret the bible, however, has varied quite a bit.

My point about “explaining who we are, where we came from and what we value” was referring to the way secular myths such as ANZAC are used to express “Australian values”. This is roughly similar to the way biblical stories work.

Facts alone are often not very meaningful without interpretation and application, even important facts like the invasion of Iraq or the discovery of the electron. Truth must always be consistent with facts, but is not necessarily identical with them.

These are all statements I believe to be true even though I cannot demonstrate them with proven facts:

Beethoven’s ninth symphony is beautiful.

Racism is immoral

We should value the environment for its own sake, not just the “environmental services” it provides to us.

Friendships are important

These tend to be statements of value and interpretation, which can be logically defended but not actually "proven".

Dear Rhian,

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying to be that much of what we each believe in is opinion, based on what we have learnt and experienced in our own lives.In that regard we all have the right to follow our own beliefs and I wish not to infringe on your, or anyone's, beliefs.

I do not accept though the promotion of such beliefs as fact simply because they are recorded in a book. Here's one quote from another web site on the history of the Bible :

"It is hugely apparent that the God of the Old Testament is deeply different to that of the New - and this is perhaps a result of the historical context in which they were wrote. The Old Testament was a result of tribes people, slaves, refugees and primitive peoples, whose previous religions were all polytheistic and non-anthropomorphic. The New Testament God was produced in Greek, in a much more civilized environment, and the God portrayed reflects that."

That statement agrees with your view that it is all a matter of interpretation and core belief, not core truth.

I agree with you also that the examples you quoted of Australians using various historic events are also not factual. Again my view is these events have been used for political purposes. Mainly to try and drive people into groups which are easier to manipulate.

Gallipoli for example. That tragedy occurred due to complete mismanagement and ignorance of those in command and it resulted in a dreadful massacre of young Australians. I see nothing patriotic in that event. Rather I see young men placed in an impossible position struggling for their lives and in doing so they helped each other and gave all they had.

I beg to differ though on your statement that facts alone are often not very meaningful. They are all. The want of man (mainly man as I generally see women being much more realistic than man) to interpret and alter the facts to suit their beliefs to me is simply propaganda, nothing more.

RobbyH

Thank you for your comments. I’d disagree with the website you quote that the god of the old testament is different to the god of the new. Many of the supposedly new ideas in the teaching of Jesus and Paul are solidly based in the Hebrew Scriptures – love your neighbour as yourself, God requires justice and mercy not ritual observance and sacrifice, concern for the poor and the marginalised.

Obviously, the various books were produced in different cultural, historical and political settings, and those different contexts are reflected in what was written and how it was expressed. That’s why bible study is so fascinating. But for all their diversity, all the bible’s books are essentially about the same thing – the encounter with god and what it means. This is expressed in song and poetry, history and myth, teaching and correspondence, ritual and law. I’m not saying it’s only a matter of interpretation, but that the subject can’t be reduced to demonstrable proofs or verifiable facts, so it’s expressed largely indirectly and metaphorically. I respect your view that this means it cannot be “true”, but for me experience suggests otherwise.

I agree that Australia’s national myths such as ANZAC have been abused politically, but don’t think that proves their invalidity. Their power lies in their ability to resonate as being expressions of Australian character and values, even when the interpretations put on them can differ wildly – from rank jingoism to solemn respect for sacrifice to anger at the callous indifference of the authorities that sent young men to die horribly and needlessly. When you say you see in the Gallipoli story “young men placed in an impossible position struggling for their lives and in doing so they helped each other and gave all they had,” you are responding to that same resonance.

You say we can all interpret and alter facts to suit our beliefs, and I’d agree. So how do you distinguish between fact and iterpretation, and between neutral and impartial analysis, and interpretations that are biased and self-serving?

Hi Rhian,

Again, respect and thanks for replying.

Indeed I am responding to that resonance re Gallipoli. Like most of us I have little or no actual knowledge of the events there or the feelings and thoughts of the young men. And again whatever has been written on that may easily have been altered to suit whatever the needs of such writers.

Your last paragraph I think really focuses on the real problem. In many cases we just don't know the difference between impartial and biased versions of any event. We have to accept and reject what we are able to within the realm of our own individual experience.

This is where opinions become facts to many, including myself. This too is where religions and politics to me are totally suspect as both have proven to be great manipulators of people and their beliefs.

Note I make no objection to any individual's beliefs. But religions themselves to me do not represent anything real. The proof, if you like, of that is the extremes of people within any particular religion. Again they have supposedly had the same information available and interpreted it with the divergence of views. I refer here to all religions, not Christian specifically.

At base many religions have a common message, being to live with each other, care for each other and similar values which I generally agree with. In that regard the message you refer to is there, for me and all. It is the "my religion is better than yours" and the competition for an audience that is bad news. This is where opinions become solid cemented facts to many and no disagreement will be tolerated.

Couldn't agree more about the fascination of Bible study. If I had a thousand years I'd still be researching, reading, analysing and would probably be no closer to the reality of history.

Back to the message of this blog. The principles espoused by those that give of themselves for no return is the world I want for all regardless of why those principles have evolved.