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The Forum > Article Comments > The time to move on from coal is now > Comments

The time to move on from coal is now : Comments

By Ben Pearson, published 29/12/2006

Clean coal is a furphy - the equivalent of 'healthy cigarettes'.

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I would love it if some other posters could answer a few questions on this subject.

1. Why is it important that we should not export coal, when other countries can purchase it freely from third world sources? How does that help us?

2. Considering that China has already announced that they will not be reducing emissions ( they have more important priorities), what difference will it make if we do? Remember that we only generate 1% of world gases, and the whole southern hemisphere only produces 4%.

3. Sure, we can stop all these industries, and we, with the rest of the world will sink into a depression that will make the thirties look like a picnic. The only way we know how to run an economy is with constant growth.

4. I was happy to see VK3AUU mentioning the subject of population. Relax, VK3AUU, the four horsemen are already out of the stable, and are happily roaming around africa and the middle east.

(p.s. For those with no knowledge of the bible, the four horsemen of the apocalypse are WAR, FAMINE, PESTILENCE and DEATH.)

5. Those who oppose fission reactors should realise they are only a short term option (ca 50 years). The only long term option is fusion power stations. Renewable energy is too intermittent to be feasible on a large scale until we develop cheap ways to store electricity. We have been trying to do this unsuccessfully for over a hundred years.
Posted by plerdsus, Saturday, 30 December 2006 1:38:28 PM
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Plerdsus ; That is a sacrilege; mentioning Fission Reactors in this place, it is akin to mentioning chainsaw and Trees, It would be enough to have you locked up for; “Thought Murder”
I dare not mention my reactor, with the fear of being lynched by the proletariat lobotomized.

Advancements in Plasma fusion reactors are coming along well , not that there would be too many people here would have a clue what we were talking about;
But for those that have some interest and wish to know, will find this article very explanatory; http://majorityrights.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/24/

And what the hell, I will throw in some notes on Quantam Quarks as well; http://majorityrights.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/85/

Epistemology is great, I just wish some people make a greater effort in finding out about Science advancements.
After all, there is no future in being a Useless Idiot
Posted by All-, Saturday, 30 December 2006 5:33:21 PM
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All, your references to current plasma technology are interesting. I must admit that I was rather sceptical of what the Russians were claiming when they first went public a couple of decades ago. My knowledge of physics is fairly elementary as I last studied the subject at a tertiary level back in about 1955 or so. At least I learned enough to be able to understand some of the mechanisms involved.
It does seem that our fearless leader needs to be bought up to speed with the current state of the art regarding plasma research. However, time is now the essense of the contract with regard to developing practical systems capable of producing 500 to 1000 Megawatts. I wonder if you have a handle on what sort of power levels are currently being realised, or do I have to go through all the references - I am getting lazy as I am getting older.
Posted by VK3AUU, Saturday, 30 December 2006 11:20:07 PM
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Well, I overcame my lethargy and read some of the more promising references you gave on fusion. You will have to pardon my blasphemy, but it looks like fission will be the dominant power generator for some time in the future. I think we need to be realistic about it.

I don't quite understand why more research isn't being done with geothermal power generation. After all, the rock temperature down the bottom of the mine at Mount Isa is around 120 degrees F, (I've been there) at a depth of around 5000 feet, so it probably isn't beyond the bounds of possibility to go to whatever times that depth to get the required temperature to generate steam. It would be much easier in volcanic areas. As well as that, the sun does shine a goodly number of hours every day in most parts of the country, so we only need other power sources for the rest of the day.

Incidentally, does anyone have practical design for a Sterling cycle engine that I could couple to a 3.8 metre diameter parabolic reflector.
Posted by VK3AUU, Sunday, 31 December 2006 12:38:31 PM
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If we don't burn the coal, it will sit as a honeypot to every major nation with declining energy supplies (thats all of them) and every amoral populist politican in Oz (thats most of them). Energy security is a trigger issue for US & NATO military action, be amazing if wasn't so for China too. Better we burn it as clean (and probably expensive) as possible than have the coal sit there attracting chancers.

Cost is the main impediment to cleaner coal, there are no lack of emissions scrubbing and C re-use technologies. Personally i like algal cake http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_file&file_id=EC133p34.pdf but choosing tech's is a job for a properly regulated market. Emissions trading WILL NOT speed us towards this end as the EU's corporately-corrupt fiasco is showing, an overarching 'contraction and convergence' protocol is the best starting place followed by direct taxation of emissions. Leaving coal in the ground is, unfortunately, highly unlikely.
Posted by Liam, Sunday, 31 December 2006 1:12:07 PM
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Thanks: VK3AUU , I glad you enjoyed finding out more;
One of Australians biggest problems is the absolute distance the Power grid has to extend, thus the reason we have 240 volts;
So the actual consumption of Electricity is a lesser variant to the ratio of power production; accurate figure escape me for the moment,
A short term solution would be if Household could produce an element of electricity and bank it into the National grid, as it would assist the levels of production, and the Loss within the system, can be minimized by extremely small addition- every little bit helps.

NASA has some excellent solar collectors available, which are glass mirror reflector, half spherical spintronic; it is used on the Orbiting space station, and obviously not as cumbersome as the Panel system. I will have to re track that info; I actually thought it would be front page new, I was wrong.

People have a need now to learn about these things, as the Governing system here and probably elsewhere is about to collapse. And besides it is always advisable to maintain a level of Independence from the state, People should control and maintain their own destiny. Every little bit helps. Bureaucrats will only take your money; and then pretend to be doing you a favor.
Posted by All-, Sunday, 31 December 2006 5:18:21 PM
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