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The Forum > Article Comments > Have we forgotten ‘never again’? > Comments

Have we forgotten ‘never again’? : Comments

By Dvir Abramovich, published 29/12/2006

The silence about the bloodshed in Darfur - the first genocide of the 21st century - is deafening.

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For a self proclaimed devout Christian BOAZ_David, you are a hypocrite.
Was it not Jesus that said “Love thy Neighbor?”

As for the Palestinians, was it not Israel which approved delivery of an arms shipment of 2,000 automatic rifles, 20,000 ammunition clips and two million bullets to the Fatah Party 3 days ago?
Is this not inciting violence against the democratically elected government of Hamas?
Posted by Chad, Saturday, 30 December 2006 9:57:25 AM
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Dear Chad, thankyou for that timely reminder.

Please realize, this is a discussion forum so it should not surprise you that people use indirect devices to get a point across or to open minds.

You call me a hypocrite. Ok.. I'll guarantee one thing, you are absolutely correct. The thought of my remaining 100% (as opposed to 99.9%) in total harmony between faith, thought and action is a big ask. So, hypocrite it is.

Love thy neighbour ? Ur right. So, now that the ball is rolling, what is love ? Do you only understand this concept in terms of a mother nurturing her children ? i.e. in the 'warm fuzzy' way ?

Can I suggest you review Romans 13:1-7 to see the responsiblities of the State in regard to the 'evildoer'. You will note I presume (as I have done) that the terminology is clearly of a military nature.
Then, please see Romans 12:9-17 but see the interesting points in verses
9 "hate what is evil"
14 "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse"
17 "Do not repay anyone evil for evil"

Then compare this with Galatians 1:9
[As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!]

Its the same person writing all of those thoughts. Now.. the important point is, can we understand his obvious condemnation of false teaching in Galatians in relation to 'Bless and do not curse" ?

Yes..I think we can, and quite easily. But the point I'm making here is that there is a lot more to the Biblical idea of 'Loving your neighbour' than you simplistically try to assert.

I conclude that to urge the 'Emperor' to carryout his governmental responsibilities in regard to international conflict is not without scriptural support.
How is 'arming and training oppressed people to defend themselves' "not" Loving my neighbour".
Perhaps I could urge the emperor to

a) Write a strongly worded letter to the oppressors.
b) Warn them, if they persist, military options will ensue.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 30 December 2006 12:26:48 PM
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Well done Chad.

I thought it would be almost impossible to connect the Israelis with the Dafur tragedy but you have done it. You have almost tried to blame them for it but stopped short.

We all know it was the international Zionists with their control on the press that orchestrated it together with the CIA, Micky Mouse and the Klu Klux Klan. That is logical is it not?
Posted by logic, Saturday, 30 December 2006 5:26:20 PM
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Fencepost notes that we must consider the rules of intervention in the affairs of sovereign states as a cause of international inaction over Darfur. This is a valid argument only up to a point.

Since the NATO intervention in Kosovo, which breached Serbian sovereignty and was not endorsed by the Security Council because of Russian and Chinese threats to veto (they have their own minorities to oppress), there has existed in customary international law a right to collective intervention on humanitarian grounds where a crime against humanity is in commission and there is no other way of realistically stopping it continuing.

A similar situation was the enforcement of no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq to protect Kurds and Shiites against Saddam's retribution.

NATO's intervention in Kosovo provides the international law precedent for lawful humanitarian intervention in breach of Sudanese sovereignty by a collective of other states willing (obliged?) to act to stop a continuing crime against humanity (genocide).

This is so even in the absence of a Security Council resolution authorising force so long as there is a Security Council resolution identifying the crisis as a threat to world peace and sanctions have been imposed and ignored. At present no such sanctions imposing resolution has been passed. This must be the next step before lawful humanitarian invention.

The development of strongly enforceable international law norms is the way to stop genocides and other crimes against humanity in the long run. David BOAZ's solution, to arm the oppressed with superior weapons, will only incite a cyclical round of high crime. BOAZ needs to get off the rhetorical swipes at the "Left" (a lazy device to use when your own argument is specious) and make a reasoned point instead of railing against "incompatible migrants" and invoking Jesus as justification for violence.
Posted by travellingnorth, Sunday, 31 December 2006 11:16:20 AM
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Northy.....

Kosovo was a disaster which has unquestionably sown the seeds of future opportunistic race/religion based animosity which has a high likelihood of being a genocide or a mass ethnic cleansing exercise.

All Nato did, was keep the people who hate each others guts close enough to see, hate, despise each other, yet not actually wipe each other out. Nothing has actually changed except the immediate capability of mass expulsions or killings.

There are historic reasons for this, and in my opinion there would be incremental contemporary ones.

1/ Historically, the Ottoman invasion, and the dispersion of Muslim Albanians into 'Nonimally Christian Serb Orthodox HEARTland'.
2/ Contempary reasons would be the continual pressure of expanding Muslim population seeking land for homes and clans, and this would be the incremental aspect. As this process continues, suddenly the Serbs wake up one morning realizing they have been dispossessed by stealth.

Shock horror the Serbs decide to reverse this tide of history by the same means it was initially dumped on them by the Turks.. "invasion".
Sadly, the worst aspects of de-humanized people (exemplified by the infamous "Arkan" ) allying themselves to otherwise understandable causes found outlet under the general umbrella of the Serb Military effort.

It would have been far better for the Serbs to just make the plan "Expel all Muslims" and carry it out in a Military manner without the sneaky death squads of Arkan and ilk.

"Never Again"...is a myth. It is only 60 yrs since the last massive so called 'world' conflict and we have had longer, numerically more deadly conflicts since then (Chinese Cultural Revolution to name one, Stalins purges another)

The most we can hope for, is that wherever the ultimate power resides, the 'Emporer' will be a benevolent one.

I promise you one thing though, as sure as night follows day, unless something is done to stop (not slowdown...stop)Muslim immigration/(Invasion by stealth) to Europe, and unless Europe rediscovers its own spritual soul, we are doomed.
-Political Correctness
-MultiCulturalism
-Human Rights (so called)
...Are impediments to survival.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 31 December 2006 12:50:41 PM
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This process of history and race, of idealism and reality can be shown clearly from the events in Yugoslavia as it took shape over some centuries.

[In 1529, following the defeat of the Hungarians by the Ottoman Turks, the Habsburg and Ottoman Empires divided Hungary’s territories, thereby creating a militarised border in Croatia between the Islamic and Christian worlds, running roughly along the present border between Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina. Serbs settled in areas of Croatia known as Krajina (border lands), the source of much Croat-Serb conflict thereafter.]

QUESTION... why...did the Serbs settle in Krajina ?
ANSWER..... Dispossession by the Ottomans !

SEED of future conflict is found in the last sentence of the quote.

Now.. the Outside Powers get involved and:

[after the destruction of the Austro-Hungarian Empire during World War I, a new ‘Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes’ was created in 1918, later renamed ‘Yugoslavia’ in 1929.]

Well there you have it.. UTOPIA... Serbs,Croats and Slovenes all living happily together....right ? WRONG !

[During the inter-war period, however, a highly unitary Serb-dominated state was created, worsening Croat-Serb conflict, which was exploited by the Nazis, after the Axis dismemberment of Yugoslavia in 1941]

and there of course we see the wonderful workings of MULTICULTURALISM and how simple it is for outside forces (Nazi's) to EXPLOIT diverse cultural groups. (Nationalistic Croats)

and... the Balkans war was the result.

OBSERVATIONS.
1/ Human nature has not changed
2/ No amount of warm fuzzy UN Conventions will change the human heart.
3/ MultiCulturalists are totally ignorant of history. (willfully?)
4/ In the light of History, MultiCulturalism could be viewed as SEDITION. (in my opinion)

Final Point: The Shepharton Iraqi Association is RACIST. (As are all 'ethnic' associations, including British)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 31 December 2006 1:10:05 PM
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