Well, we know that at least one indigenous person had the gumption to leave the camp for the sake of her baby. There is no reason for others not to do the same. But why on earth would non-indigenous people go to one of these camps (there is no better word for them)? We already know that remote, apartheid style living – if you can call it living - is THE problem for indigenes.

Mr. Brough seems to be passing the buck (nothing new for governments) onto volunteers. Any person who falls for this trick, and volunteers to help people who don’t make a move to help themselves, will be a real sucker. Not many people are that soft in the head, though, and the whole thing will be a complete flop like the rest of the attempts to “help” aborigines. And, given that Mick Dodson recently told everyone how “different” his people are from the rest of us, what’s the point anyway? Let them get on with things their way, on their own, if that’s what one of their apparent “leaders”, Mr. Dodson wants.

“Remote Indigenous communities have been isolated for too long from interaction with mainstream Australia”, Brough is reported as saying. Well, I never! Of course remote communities are isolated! That’s why they should be scrapped.

The whole aboriginal “thing” gets sillier all the time.

“Mal Brough may not have been trying to imply that some Indigenous people do not deserve access to basic services.” Whether or not he was is irrelevant. Do these people really expect taxpayers to provide services to remote communities when they themselves (taxpayers) are finding it harder to find lower priced land on the outskirts of cities because it is too expensive to provide services certain distances from the metropolitan area?

Mick Dodson wants his people to be left alone, says they are “different”. Let him sort out the problems – and pay for it

Hi Leigh,

What you are suggesting sounds a bit like apartheid I think. But I agree with you about the sustainability of remote settlements that want the same services as city areas.

Looking forward to Rainier's usual feedback ;).

gw

Come on author, that was a bit dog in the manger. Let's be reasonable, many of these seniors are very skilled and have a lot of life experience. Many are very fit too.

There is a lot of goodwill that can be tapped. Some have been involved in indigenous matters, health, welfare and counselling anyhow and many others have organisational skills. There ar4e sports coaches, teachers and whatever.

The idea came from the National Seniors Association (280,000 members).
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/lifematters/stories/2006/1798506.htm

Grey nomads already perform a lot of seasonal work around Australia.

The proposal is that help would be provided by invitation only.

Of course the present indigenous helping organisations would have their elbows out to protect their turf - only indigenous (or 'culturally sensitive') people should help indigenous people and so on.

Just waiting for all of the rationalisations and excuses to hold out the volunteers: "Golly gee, what about insurance, training and so on".

There are plenty of indigenous children and mothers who would benefit immediately from some help.

What is the bet that if the current vested interests concede any ground on this at all they will be asking for volunteers to be limited to menial hands and feet work only.

We have a number of family friends who would give time to help and they are seasoned overseas volunteers. So why should there be any impediment to them helping out in our own backyard?

Kirsty, it is very possible that some real good will come out of the National Seniors' offer to help. What about leaving the mean political point scoring to side for a moment and try to look welcome the positives?

Gw,

Yes. It is apartheid, and I definitely do not believe in apartheid. Perhaps you missed this: “We already know that remote, apartheid style living – if you can call it living - is THE problem for indigenes.”

But, certain people seem determined to continue with that style of living – I certainly can’t do anything about that – hence my remark that the likes of Mick Dodson et al, who want everything but want to maintain difference, should work it out for themselves.

I wouldn’t like to have anyone think that I believe in separate development for any group, including the ghettos created by multiculturalism.

Cheers.

Well said, Cornflower.

Kirsty, it might interest you to know that not all of us Grey Nomads live in the big cities. Many of us live in some of the larger country towns where there are also good education facilities, even at the tertiary level.

I would have thought that any attempt to improve the lot of indigenous people who live in remote communities would be welcome. Perhaps you should try and talk directly with the Minister and while voicing your concerns about the program, also listen to what he might have to say about its philosophy.

Quite obviously, what has happened during the past 40 years has not been universally successful, so some new and novel approach might actually have some benefit.

Pardon me but aren't you all missing the point. Do these communities want old farts and their so-called expertise? Is there to be no assessment of what grey nomads can offer?Secondly, isn't this is another example of a government trying to get others to take on its responsibilities, thereby saving money for a dirty election campaign in 2007?

For what it's worth (not much) I have academic qualifications combined with extensive experience in lecturing, teaching, mentoring and so on. There's as much need for our services in the suburbs and many grey nomads only venture forth out of cities because age brings feeelings of frailty and being hemmed in. So a life on the open road (toot, toot, parp, parp) is very attractive. Who wants to stop anywhere for long enough to be "useful" anyway. The next thing will be this mob enforcing community work on the nomads as a condition of pensions. What about reciprocity in the form of tax-free gasoline for those who want to be involved in Brough's brou-ha-ha and ensuring volunteers are actually capable of assisting arguably one of the most deprived sectors of our population.

As health and education in our outback indigenous communities are rated as being of Third World status by WHO, OXFAM among others, it appears to me that the whole plan is a Potemkin village road show.

Old farts?! No, that would not be a fair assessment.

Restructuring forced redundancy on many relatively young, well trained and competent people. Others chose to retire early but would still like to contribute to the country.

Besides that, there are people 65+ who are fitter and more alert than people in their forties.

I wouldn't worry that the government getting a freebee, think about it as the indigenous people getting one instead.

There is no chance that help will be forced on communities; the original suggestion was that help would only be offered where requested.

There are many very useful and motivated people out there who have offered to help. The proposal deserves a fair hearing.

Pardon me Pericles. I am an old fart grey nomad. For what its worth i also have academic qualifications but mine are in engineering. I have mentored young ones with their ambitions in this field. Your post is both arrogant and i suppose in keeping with your training, somewhat pontificating. You arrogantly assume we travellers feel fragile and hemmed in. How do you know? It is commonly acknowledged that that travelling community, especially the large membership of the CMCA, for campervan and motorhome owners,are willing to help anyone in any situation on the road. There is "so called expertise" in trades and professions. Professional commentators would not be of any use. Most grey nomads would volunteer their services. I dont think many would wish to be used as a resource,by any organisation,or government.Maybe Pericles you have ambitions to teach and mentor us all.Would your pet subject be lifeskills and therefore assessable of us by your esteemed self. Off we go poot poot part part.

Cornflower, I did not mean to imply that older Australians, or the National Seniors Association, would not make a capable and valuable contribution. Like the Indigenous Community Volunteers skills-transfer scheme, on which this new programme is modelled, the Senior Volunteers for Indigenous Communities will be a positive force.

I wanted to draw attention, though, to the way in which the Minister described the programme and linked it to other, broader issues.

A volunteer programme should not take the place of a genuine government commitment to provide resources in the long-term, and real respect for the right of Indigenous people to make decisions about their own lives and communities.

Kirsty McLaren

Kirsty
I accept where you re coming from and the government has had ten years to show leadership.

However, over billions of dollars have been poured into indigenous issues over forty years, yet many children live in abject poverty, have poor nutrition and many cannot read or write. Women and children are abused daily in some communities. Money granted for the betterment of indigenous communities has, at community level, been misdirected, squandered and stolen.

Plainly, there are systemic deficiencies that need to be corrected. The Australian National Audit Office has answered that question many times regarding funding and has recommended improvements which need to be implemented. ANAO’s reports are tabled in Parliament.

We need also to ask, “If India can have a UNICEF initiative of zero tolerance of violence against children, why are feminists and multiculturalists so opposed to a similar initiative in Australia?” For example, Australian feminists do not oppose child abuse through child marriage to old Aboriginal men. Why do feminists believe that violence against indigenous children (in this case girls) is OK, but it is not OK elsewhere in the community?

Likewise, it is known that basic hygiene could reduce disease (hepatitis, eye and respiratory problems, diahorrea) for thousands of indigenous children and save many lives. This isn’t rocket science: mothers need to wash their hands after changing infants and before preparing meals. They are also best placed to teach basic hygiene to children.

However, even after four decades of investment in experts of all descriptions who are 'sensitive' to indigenous culture, the creation of huge bureaucracies to service Aboriginals and implementation of self management of communities, basic hygiene has not improved. But community education kits are available world-wide and are used in developing and developed countries.

So what prevents the successful implementation of hygiene education in Australian indigenous communities?

Women and youth should speak for themselves and have a much greater role in governance at the local level and maybe the national seniors initiative could circumvent the 'middle men' (men and women) who hold back progress.

An excellent post Cornflower, very perspicatious.

My only comment here is I do not like the term - Stepping up to the plate - it is an American sporting term

No Australians step up to plates unless they are dish pigs in an eating house - we might go to the crease perhaps - but no plates.

Nor do we have side walks or eat cookies - lets be very sure about this - similarly touch downs are foriegn to us (will some one please tell Mark Holden).

Well Sneekypete.Your name reminds me of a mexican bandit.Your post suggests a dislike of those US gringos. Lets end this thread with my post. In the words of that all American hero, "lettts saddle uppp and get the hell outa here". Cheers.