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The Forum > Article Comments > Climate change costs - look at both sides of the balance sheet > Comments

Climate change costs - look at both sides of the balance sheet : Comments

By Fiona Wain, published 6/12/2006

Action to combat climate change needs to be fast-tracked if the world is to avoid falling into an unprecedented recession.

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Whee.

Whatever happened to the whole 'hole in the ozone layer' debacle. Did we stop using CFCs and did everything shape up okay?
Last I heard, the whole was getting much bigger, and antarctica was going to be an ice cube tray by... well... soon.

Sure, we have skyrocketing levels of skin cancer, but if the modern media have taught me anything, it's that the world isn't in trouble until a tidal wave is hitting the statue of liberty.

Uh. This article is much too optimistic. It's all well and good to say 'we need to do this' but unless you back it up with specifics, you're not going to get very far.

Wain says that a complete overhaul of the economy is required and things like emissions trading won't be enough.

Well... yeah. But the only way to get started is by using things like emissions trading.

Before you can look at the big broad picture like this article, you need to introduce the minutiae. And you need to outline how to introduce them.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 1:43:39 PM
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I realise the climate cover up revealed by Gelbspan 1995 has run its course even sceptics to stay in office must make some genuflexion to the electorate.

It happens Australia has been endowed with Uranium and coal both useful in balancing our debt ridden economy. Both useful in making some rich like squatters of old. Howard has been his usual clever self and under the scare of Greenhouse, ‘do not panic’ he said we will discuss reactors and once the public is partially weaned to view them favourably our Uranium can be sold. Coal will be as usual awaiting the years to sequestration’s proof. Business as usual.

Little mention is made of alternatives and then only that they can help but not solve.
However many have been working on alternatives both technically and on their economics resulting in many publications from many sources one of which ‘Factor Four Doubling Wealth Halving Resource Use’ Weizsacker, Lovins and Lovins 1998.This and many others have outlined how to be energy efficient. Reducing Greenhouse at costs recovered in a short period 2 to 10 years. From this and including transport for which nuclear offers little unless an extra reactor is added to the proposed 25, producing hydrogen, it would seem that we could with marginal economic cost reduce GHG by the amount needed. The value of Coal could be reduced. The profits more widely distributed, power generation much closer to its use site and perhaps/probably no need for Nuclear, lessening Uranium sales. Individuals would need to do much more depending less on being supplied.

They might even need to listen to the media critically remembering as I F Stone said, “governments lie” he should have added and so do others or politely make the best case leaving out unwanted facts.

Is all that is contained in the last paragraph just the spin from the alternative lobby counterbalancing that of the BIG FIX solutions, profitable to a small number of businesses ? After all we live in an age in which increasingly we are fed spin in place of fact
Posted by untutored mind, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 3:57:35 PM
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Forget Stern and his 750 pages, at least for now. He is neither a climatologist nor a palaeoclimatologist. Like Dr Rajendra Pachauri, head of IPCC, Sir Nicholas is an economist. His call to spend 1% of global GDP (US$400 billion per year) on preventing climate change has no sound basis - at least as yet. Climatologists say ours is a self-contained, stable and benign climate - disturbed only now by people burning fossil fuels; only continued warming is projected for the century ahead - WITH NO COLD PERIODS. Palaeoclimatologists like me say ours is an externally driven and ever-changing climate; and solar/planetary inertial, resonant and electromagnetic influences can be predicted. The 300-year warming trend since the desperate misery of the Maunder Minimum is at an end; and perhaps, the giant El Nino of 1997/8 has already marked the warmest year between 1650 and 2050. The next Little Ice Age cold period should be obvious by 2020, and the Landscheidt Minimum will be fully developed by 2030. Within 5 or 10 years we will have a good idea which hypothesis is correct - happily, the result cannot be a draw. There is no point in impoverishing the world until we know. HANG LOOSE. But in the interim, surely, the precautionary principle should work BOTH ways.
Posted by fosbob, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 6:51:24 PM
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Ah, it is good to have a "paleoclimatologist like me" to set me right.
All that rubbish I have been reading, sourced from the simple-minded climatologists of IPCC, CSIRO, and their ignorant colleagues!
So they have been feeding me tripe all this time! Not knowing what they were doing, while they were incorporating into their models the record of oscillations in tempertures and associated gases derived from Greenland and Antarctic ice-cores; showing ignorance in evaluating data from calcium carbonate skeletons from sea-creatures locked away in coral reefs and geological deposits, etc. etc.. Wasted, their inept interpretations of that data ranging in time from hundreds of thousands of years back to the present; through the times of the Toba eruption, of Mungo Man, the Mayans, the Greenlanders, on to our benign times.
If only that numerous mob of idiots had engaged that individual, a "paleoclimatologist like me".
Posted by colinsett, Wednesday, 6 December 2006 8:56:28 PM
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That abusive response demeans a vital issue - the future well-being of humanity. Will 2030 be dangerously warm, or dangerously cool? Neither IPCC, nor palaeoclimatologist like me, predict it will just be a quarter-century continuation of current climate. CSIRO is also invoked in the response above. Its "Future Cimate Change in Australia" gives a temperature range for 2030 in Darwin, Broome, Perth, Alice, Adelaide, Melbourne, Launceston, Sydney, Brisbane and Cairns. In NO case does the range for 2030 even offer a low-end which is below "Now". Obviously, CSIRO is certain that the future is only more and more warming - with no chance of another Little Ice Age minimimum. Although 2030 is still far off, we may be able to see which way things are going by about the peak of the next (24)sunspot cycle - say, 2010-2015. Save your abuse until you know whether it is justified.
Posted by fosbob, Thursday, 7 December 2006 7:05:06 AM
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Fosbob says
“Obviously, CSIRO is certain that the future is only more and more warming - with no chance of another Little Ice Age minimimum”

It’s not obvious to me that CSIRO is certain about anything. Can fosbob cite some CSIRO policy statement which includes a global warming prediction of absolute certainty? Is fosbob talking about work, publically endorsed by CSIRO, of one or more CSIRO scientists making a prediction of inevitable global warming, with no allowance for error?
I would be very surprised if CSIRO or any CSIRO scientist would thus stake their authority and reputation on the absolute inevitability of any prediction based on evidence of global warming.

I’d be delighted if anyone can provide the citations which demonstrate CSIRO certainty, so that I may read chapter and verse for myself, but I suspect the papers are there with the the gold in the pot at the end of the rainbow - I hope fosbob can outwit those wily leprechauns - - -
Posted by Sir Vivor, Thursday, 7 December 2006 9:33:21 AM
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