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The Forum > Article Comments > Don't let schools lose their best > Comments

Don't let schools lose their best : Comments

By Stephen Lamb, published 24/11/2006

There appears to be little reason for increasing the number of selective-entry schools.

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Don't be fooled, hasbeen, that's not the official line. Whoever they are, schoolguidevictoria is not the voice of any formal instrumentality. In fact if you take a glance at their web page, it is a single A4 sized questionnaire giving the opportunity (to whom, one wonders, and to what end?) to rate schools on a scale of one to ten.

They state their mission as "By 2007 we aim to provide comments, statistics, and ratings for every secondary school in Victoria... Our aim as editors of schoolguidevictoria.net is to provide an online guide to school choice in Victoria which is free from advertising or bias."

You can tell that they will not let any bias creep into their assessment from the comment in their post:

>>I'm not totally convinced how much selective schools help the students that attend there (1% improvement on ENTER score? who knows?)<<

If their interpretation of statistics from their survey attains the same standard of precision, it will clearly add precisely nothing to the debate, and only serve to muddy the waters still further.

Spurious claims from self-appointed pseudo-expert sources are the bane of intelligent debate, and we have just experienced a classic. Where do people get off producing stuff like this?
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 24 November 2006 3:00:15 PM
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I don't think you need to worry about www.schoolguidevictoria.net either. Just look at the logic.

1) Selective schools are socially and academically selective. So?
2) Selective schools don't help, its all a big social background confound. If you believe that, you don't need to send your children there.
2.1) Only a small number of children benefit from selective schools. So? Only a small number of people benefit from a whole range of things (PhDs, cancer drugs, ...), but that doesn't mean to say they are bad.
3) Parents take their children out of poor schools. So would I -- wouldn't most people given the oppurtunity? Is the idea that children in bad schools should be punished by being forced to stay?
4) Taking children out of poor schools creates problems for all students. This point is presumably in conflict with (2), since if point (2) is correct, which suggests that selective schools make no difference, then presumably it shouldn't make a difference to the schools that lose students to them either.
Posted by rc, Friday, 24 November 2006 3:28:23 PM
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i went to a private school and had no end of money spend on my education up until the age of 18 , which upon i finished school and promptly got into crime because i was not smart enough for uni and had had limited experience in "hands on tools" like mechanical knowlegde which i have ended up thriving at . lucky for me i was busted by the cops and given a comunity service order , which taught me some work eithic's , (iv'e worked every day since then ) , schools need to start catering towards individual students , and concentrating on the talents within each person , rather than force them into learning something they have no interest in . changing the way we educate people will change and shape our future .
Posted by VTCHRIS, Friday, 24 November 2006 10:41:54 PM
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The article is mistaken for a number of reasons:
(1) Although, academically, the whole might perform better without selective schools, the gifted minority are being made to suffer a lot for the small benefits of the majority. This is not ethical. Every child deserves an appropriate education where they have a chance to learn.
(2) Even if the average performance is better, it is the abilities of our leaders and innovators (the gifted people) who shape our future. By holding these children back, you are actually giving our country a worse chance for real progress.
(3) There is more to learning than academic ability. Gifted children often develop poorly in normal schools. Sometimes they become rebels due to frustration and boredom. Sometimes they are bullied and withdraw. Sometimes, like me, they fail to develop resilience and the ability to cope with failure because everything they've done, they succeed at so easily (until they're in the real world). Often they grow up feeling different, isolated and alone while at the same time being denied the chance to really show what they can do. These kinds of problems are not taken into account in just looking at academic results.
(4) Not having enough selective schools will simply mean that all of our future leaders will end up coming from rich families who could afford to send their children to private schools. It will result in an even more divided and elitist society. If selective schools mainly have children from middle class backgrounds now, it is because there are not enough selective schools and the competition for places excludes talented children from more disadvantaged homes.

We definitely need better education across the board but more selective schools is at least a step in the right direction. It will give talented children from disadvantaged backgrounds an appropriate education and a real chance.
Posted by Zwicky, Saturday, 25 November 2006 9:07:45 AM
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I think that everybody deserves an excellent education regardless of their academic abilities. I feel that this type of decision is another move towards the segregation of society which is already a worry.

Also, school provides much more than an academic education; it is an education in life where mixing with people from all sorts of backgrounds enables a well-balanced citizen.

It is also important for parents to recognise that an education in a private or selective public school does not guarantee that a person is going to obtain a fantastic well-paying job or career either. My work experience and and that of other people that I have known has shown that I, as a former student of a "poor" public school have achieved the same work as others whose parents forked out an enormous sum for their education.

I think that unless children are "geniuses" and find it difficult to cope in an ordinary school situation, bright children are better off being "big fishes in little ponds" rather than being educated in a narrow situation. I remember a teacher commenting on my very bright daughter: that she would learn despite anything.

I have three children who all have good jobs. What pleases me most however, is that they are well-rounded people with a social conscience and a wide circle of friends and plenty of outside interests.
Posted by Lainie, Saturday, 25 November 2006 9:12:24 AM
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This artice has reminded me about "Opportunity Schools" that used to exist in the 1960s. I remember one or two students in my final year of primary school went to one of these. That would have been about 1966. I missed out because I was only the 5th smartest in my year and so the offers were made to the cream of academia. Has anyone here had experience of those types of schools, and if they did, how did they find the experience? If they don't exist anymore, I would like to know why.
Posted by Lainie, Saturday, 25 November 2006 11:57:01 AM
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