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The Forum > Article Comments > Banged up without rights > Comments

Banged up without rights : Comments

By Greg Barns, published 22/11/2006

Which political party will deal with Victoria’s most pressing crisis - mental illness in its prisons?

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The Howard Government has already chipped in. It cut health funding to mthe States by nearly a billion dollars in 2004. What more could you ask for, take funding away, so in net terms even with G.S.T. funding State governments are barely making ends meet.

Perhaps if Victorians were to elect a Liberal State government this may change, however if that were to occur the victimisation of the remaining States would become very clear indeed.
Posted by SHONGA, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:23:44 AM
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There is possibly something that can be done about not only prisoners with mental health issues, but those in general with mental health problems. Look at choosing another party in Victoria next Saturday. People Power is beginning to look good, especially since it's policies are based on human concern rather than big business. Take the time to read their policies and make an informed contribution to the way Victorians live, both those with and without mental illness. And no, I'm not a candidate or even a member of People Power. It's also interesting to note that both major parties in Victoria are giving PP their 2nd preferences over the Greens and Family First. The last thing we need in Victoria are green groups further erroding our way of life, or religious zelots from the pentacostal church making life on Earth hell for all who don't belong to their frightening ideas. I once heard someone speaking in tongues and it frightened me off religion for life. How scary to think Family First may one day be running the State or possibly the country?
Posted by Wildcat, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:39:26 AM
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Wildcat PP looks like a good option to me, both major parties are ruled by big business, at the cost of the individual and family.
Posted by SHONGA, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:57:25 AM
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Greg Barns hasn't made the case that this issue is the most important issue in Victoria. An important issue, yes - THE important issue, no. More important than the water supply, or education, or climate change? Really? Mental health is one of those policy areas where sensationalism does more harm than good.

Barns says, "Any political party that claims the moral high ground when it comes to looking after the most vulnerable in the community, cannot be taken seriously if it ignores the plight of the vast majority of prisoners in Victoria".

In instances where mentally ill people commit crimes it is effective in quarantining other vulnerable people, a point missed in Barns' quest for sensationalism. There is more to mental health treatment than limiting those afflicted from harming themselves and others - and while it is a shame on our community (not just in Victoria) that prisons provide effective facilities in this regard, questions of harm minimisation played too small a role in post-Richmond treatment systems.

There is more to the mental health issue than institutionalisation vs deinstitutionalisation. There has been for at least three decades. If you're going to wade into this issue, please show some sign of having moved beyond a stale duality of equally unacceptable options.

SHONGA - both Liberal and Labor governments have failed in mental health policy. The current Federal government has made an announcement but there's not a lot happening on the ground as yet.
Posted by AndrewElder, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 2:23:19 PM
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It is tragic to see so many with mental health issues in prison. What is more tragic is policies such as the Greens of legalising the drugs that send a lot of these people off their rocker. The more widespread the use of drugs the more mental health issues we will have. Having a mental illness does not stop people from being violent and at times needing to be locked away.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 5:19:44 PM
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Yep, the fact that the police are first port of call for managing mentally ill people is a shame. If you beleive the Beyond Blue advertisements 1 in 5 people suffer from mental illness at some time in their lives. Not every one needs to be institutionalised of course but there is no support for any one who can't cope.

I remember the phone call we received on Boxing Day one year. The young tenant had broken all the windows in the property after being left alone on Christmas Day. The policeman took 45 minutes to explain the tenant's case history and ask if we had his parent's contact details. Good thing the policeman explained the tenant's background because our first instinct was to high tail around there and boot him out.

The policeman told us the tenant was being tormented by the neighbours' kids.

Where was a social worker?
Posted by billie, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:25:56 PM
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I have heard you can drive people mad by locking them up in a tiny cell and depriving them of any meaningful activity while subjecting them to the constant stress of potential attacks - is that true?
Posted by Rob513264, Thursday, 23 November 2006 2:37:00 AM
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I don’t want to dispute the thrust of Greg’s article – that specialist mental health services have been grossly and tragically under-resourced for decades. While there are some recent signs of hope, the fact is that far too many seriously unwell patients are prematurely discharged from hospitals with inadequate support and follow up – that is, if they are able to gain access to the service in the first place. Any GP could give you a filing cabinet full of horror stories. I have my reservations about People Power, but this is an issue which might well swing my vote to them.

Greg says: “A staggering 80 per cent of Victoria’s 4,000 prisoners have some form of mental illness, or will suffer a severe mental health episode during their time in incarceration. For women, the figure is even worse - with almost 85 per cent of women in prison suffering from mental illness.”

Particularly within the context of a discussion of psychiatric service provision, such statistics are meaningless without providing some definition of exactly what is being measured. If “mental illness” means what 80 to 85 per cent of prisoners are suffering from, then that is very different from the sorts of conditions that psychiatric services are – or should be – geared to serve. The people of real concern to forensic psychiatric services are a small proportion of that 80 to 85 per cent, and get lost in the political argy-bargy when such figures get bandied about. The remainder certainly may have significant needs: drug (including alcohol) services, intellectual disability services, social workers, psychological counseling, skills training, etc. For some, psychiatric input may be valuable to clarify diagnostic uncertainty and occasionally provide adjunctive treatment. But psychiatric services work on a medical model, using largely medical treatments that are inappropriate to the needs of most offenders.

Continued below
Posted by Snout, Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:21:07 PM
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Such statistics as Greg has quoted can create the impression that the overwhelming majority of prisoners require specialist psychiatric services and the medical treatment they can offer. This is not the case. Service needs are much broader than that.
Undoubtedly psychiatric services need to be boosted both within and outside of prison walls. But this is only a small part of service need if we are to take the broadest view of mental health.
Posted by Snout, Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:23:28 PM
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Snout,
"Normal" people, whatever that means can't understand depression and associated illness, unless they have themselves gone through the experience. I am unable to describe it even now haing had it for 8 years. I am free I couldn't imagine how it would feel for someone who has what I have to be confined to a cell. Sadly we with the illness are unable to produce anything, which may be why we are ignored.
Posted by SHONGA, Thursday, 23 November 2006 10:20:46 PM
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I have also heard a judge pronounce, in a sentencing procedure, that anyone who commits a murder cannot be 'normal' in a psychiatric sense, in that normal people do not murder.

However the definition of mental illness is so broad in this context as to become almost meaningless.

Depression is a psychiatric illness. Being put in prison is enough to make anyone depressed. So if a person commits a crime, gets caught, convicted and gaoled, of course they are going to be depressed. They then may make greater use of illegal drugs, which creates yet another diagnosis. So is the solution to this not to imprison wrong doers in case they get depressed and use drugs?

Of course rehabilitation of prisoners should be more than just punishment, drug rehab and a few vocational courses. It has to include some form of psychiatric treatment.

But there is also a problem about touting the figures of 80% or whatever of prisoners having psychiatric conditions: The other way of looking at this is that if psychiatric patients are so prone to committing crime then perhaps the community needs to be protected from these people before a crime is actually committed?

Perhaps what we need is a half way situation, where someone who commits a crime, and is found to have an underlying condition, should be placed in a locked ward treatment situation with regular reviews, that way the community gets the protection that it wants, it sees a lag as being locked up, the beaks are seen as doing their job and the criminal (someone who commits a crime) gets treatment.
Posted by Hamlet, Thursday, 23 November 2006 10:44:49 PM
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Hamlet,
I understand your point, however there are different types of murder that we are all capable of, affairs of the heart, premeditated murder, psycopathic murder etc. If a person finds their partner in the act in bed with someone else it may be a reaction to murder, whilst people like Ivan Milat deliberately set out to murder.

One person may be perfectly sane most of the time, with only that second of insanity, while the other is a psycopath, which is why I do not support the death penality, I would for mass murderers and peaodophiles if it were contained to those two catergories.
Posted by SHONGA, Thursday, 23 November 2006 11:16:33 PM
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