I love a self made man Maximus - and you certainly sound like one - but like babies I could never eat a whole one.

where does the anti university nonesense come from that seems to infect a while bunch of posters?. I would not discount that which you do not understand - although maybe your 4 weeks was enough

what was the subject by the way? - and no doubt your leaving certainly taught them a thing or two I dare say. I can see your fellow students now turning around in bewilderment and talking to each other sotto voce' "where's Maximus?" they would say "has he really gone?" - "he knew so much"

I have spent 10 years in post secondary education in a variety of institutions - I bought some of the education - most of it was good, useful and it was instrumental in turning the sneekeman into the kind of person you see before you today! -

but it makes me no better than anyone else - equally not going to university does not make an individual any better than one who did.

Education ought not be a commodity - but like everything else it has been turned into one - health, looks, babies, freedom in some instances; It does not matter much where one gets it - as long as one does

G'day sneeky,

Education mate. I work on contract education programs in aviation. I'm not allowed to say any more.

And as for engineers, yeah, self taught there too. Just a hobby. I don't build big stuff like bridges or buildings, but I do get into a bit of R&D and pretty sophisticated stuff at that - I've built the odd racing car here and there over the years, with another one coming together right now. With a bit of tweaking, it should be a championship winning car in 2008.

You can't learn stuff like that at universities or TAFEs. The blokes who know, don't tell anybody else, they keep it all a closely guarded secret. You have to find out for yourself. And we're not talking pennies here either, these are both multi-billion dollar industries.

Contracts? What are is she thinking?

One of the great things about University is there is no pressure on you to do anything. No one checks if you turn up to lectures. No one comments if you don't submit an assignment. Tutorials are strictly optional. Some exams are open book, and others are on a "only counts if they improve your mark" basis. Your parents don't have a clue as to what you should be doing. The temptations are everywhere - free sporting facilities, lots of young bodies who are looking, and plenty of pubs and clubs to meet them in.

There are only two types that survive the journey to a tertiary degree - those find the subject matter more interesting than the temptations, and those with strong self discipline. An employer is guaranteed a successful graduate will have at least one of those attributes, if he is lucky both.

Ms Brabazon appears to think the most important thing a person comes out of Uni with is the knowledge of how to do the job. The reality is a graduate engineer is no more qualified to do engineering than a 'P' plate driver is qualified to drive. What you can be reasonably sure of is that unlike their peers that didn't make the distance, they do have the interest, drive and aptitude to complete the journey. Pity we don't have a test like that for driving.

Deep inside the candy-floss language and twee metaphor there is a serious subject scratching at the cat-flap.

The author states it with some confidence. "[The graduate] is not a consumer. No student - none of us - can buy knowledge"

The rebuttal to this has already been made, that universities offer only the opportunity to acquire knowledge, and for this opportunity they ask for cash. So the student is indeed the consumer, just as I can consume golf lessons, or kung-fu classes. The fact that I don't turn into Tiger Woods or Bruce Lee is not the fault of the product.

We have decided, as a society, that education needs to be paid for. Whether this is a good or a bad thing only history will tell (I think it is a disaster, by the way), but it is a fact of life.

As rache points out, one of the results of commercializing education is that the product belongs entirely to the purchaser; if it had been provided by the taxpayer, there would be at least a moral argument for the product to be used within the community.

Commercialization has also had the effect of increasing supply, as more "providers" look for revenue from the degree market. This has given rise to degrees in media studies, cultural studies, even "General Studies", for which, it would appear, people are prepared to pay simply to achieve Bachelor status.

But in a society with the economic challenges that we presently face, the value of such confections will inevitably decline, until it becomes obvious that they will never generate a return on investment.

The author regrets that "there are few spaces in the Australian or British media for an informed and careful discussion about the role, function, expectations and hopes of higher education", but then declines to offer any herself, informed, careful or otherwise.

Poking fun at the Poms Ashes aspirations, then droning on about difficulties in preparing a lecture, doth not an argument make.

And another opportunity to explore the issues meanders off into the distance.

"The author regrets that "there are few spaces in the Australian or British media for an informed and careful discussion about the role, function, expectations and hopes of higher education", but then declines to offer any herself, informed, careful or otherwise."

What are we doing here then, Pericles? We appear to be having a discussion (sometimes informed and mostly careful) about the aspects of higher education mentioned. Are we not media after a fashion? According to Helen Coonan we are, and she must know, being a minister and all.

Truth be told I'd rather hear a Pericles comment or any of the commenters here, even the ones I don't agree with, over what passes for media debate on just about anything these days.

So far the majority of commenters seem to value tertiary education which is heartening. It may not suit everyone and some degrees may be more symbolic than useful in themselves, but it is true that those who complete their degrees have demonstrated several abilities which should be important to employers.

I'd like my grandkids to have the opportunity one day and for that opportunity to be available to them regardless of bank account size, even if it does mean they have to go overseas for their contribution to be appreciated.

rstuart, You really are an exploiter of knoledge arn't you, these studentrs have put 6 years of their lives into study, and you try to degrade them by the "P"plate analogy, you shouyld be ashamed of yourself, I know you won't be so I am embarrased for for you. You are just another greedy employer, shame on you nyou parisite.