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Single-sex is best (sometimes) : Comments
By Peter West, published 15/11/2006Educating children: single-sex v co-ed; social v academic education?
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Posted by ena, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 1:49:05 PM
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ena,
Where did you get those numbers from because Brendan Nelson as federal Minister for Education said he was prepared to go in to bat for legislative change to assist the Catholic Education Office over the crisis caused by the falling numbers of male teachers. The NSW Minister for Education agrees with Nelson: http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve06/1295jervis.html Mr Beattie in Queensland has made similar statements about the low number of male teachers in that State. ena, If you know where there are lots of male teachers you are aware of something the federal and state departments of education don’t know about. Posted by Cornflower, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 1:32:57 AM
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70% male students and 30% female students were the statistics I was referring to. However, in state high schools there are many more male teachers than there are in primary schools, which is the sector the fuss is mostly about. In my girl's co-ed public school, I don't know what the actual percentage proportion was - but it must have been close to 60% female, 40% male. interestingly, despite more female teachers in the profession, there are many more men in the higher ranks of even that profession.
The reason there are more female teachers than male is that when I was at school in the 70s, girls divided their career options up like this; if you were clever, you became a teacher. If you were average, you became a secretary or a nurse, and if you were not very clever (at least at school), you wanted to be a hairdresser. Many of those 45plus women teachers now form the backbone of our schools, but they'll be gone in 10 years. Now, we attract even fewer men because teaching still pays badly, and there are many more better paying options for boys ( and always have been). Now there are for girls, as well. If we want more male teachers and better quality teachers in general - we will have to pay them more. It isn't active discrimination or political correctness or radical feminism (why would anyone want to keep a low status, low paying profession all to themselves - it simply doesn't make sense) that has led to the feminisation of teaching, its just a combination of social pressures and economic reality. in fact, when all those 45 plus women go, the pay for teachers probably will go up, because we'll desperately need to attract people to the profession again. Posted by ena, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 7:39:57 AM
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ena
Your previous belief that boys are naturally less emotionally mature than girls by 2 years is incorrect and a discriminatory statement. In 2002 the Federal Government undertook an inquiry into boys education. After that inquiry the government also sponsored a number of other research projects. No research project has ever found that boys are naturally less emotionally mature than girls. However that misconception is still being said to members of the public by at least some school teachers and some school principles. What nearly all studies have found to date is that the quality of the teaching is the most predominant factor in the educational outcomes of both boys and girls, and this is independent of whether the school is single sex or co-ed. After the inquiry and after numerous other studies were undertaken, the Federal government developed 10 Guiding principles for success in educating boys. .http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/key_issues/boys_education/guiding_principles_in_educating_boys.htm 1. Collect evidence and undertake ongoing inquiry on the issue, recognising that schools can do something about it. 2. Adopt a flexible, whole school approach with a person and team responsible. 3. Ensure good teaching for boys, and all students in all classes. 4. Be clear about the kinds of support particular boys require. 5. Cater for different learning styles preferred by boys. 6. Recognise that gender matters and stereotypes should be challenged. 7. Develop positive relationships, as they are critical to success. 8. Provide opportunities for boys to benefit from positive male role models from within and beyond the school. 9. Focus on literacy in particular. 10. Use information and communication technologies (ICTs) as a valuable tool. Nowhere in the 10 guiding principles does it state that boys are normally less emotionally mature than girls, and making such a statement is discriminatory and only maligns boys. I would also think that the author should seriously consider the 10 guiding principles before any more articles are written regarding boys and their education. Posted by HRS, Thursday, 23 November 2006 12:16:06 PM
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Oh well, I'm only applying the everyday, practical observations of every single parent of my acquaintance when looking at their male and female children, but I'm sure academics and researchers are far more expert at such things than the men and women who actually bring them up. Funny how they even mature physically at different rates too, isn't it? You don't think that might have some effect on their emotional maturity, perhaps? Go look at a mixed class of 14 year olds in any school in the country - the girls will on average be taller than the boys and have breasts and waists and hips like women, almost all of them will be menstruating. Most 14 year old boys still look ( and sound) like kids, their voices haven't broken yet and they haven't started that growth spurt that will see them outstrip the girls in height in only a few years, but your experts would tell us this means nothing. If anyone is discriminating against boys at this point it would seem to be nature. But that's okay, for all the angst about how boys do at school in comparison to girls, according to any statistic you care to name ( average earnings, percentage in management, high earning, high prestige and leadership jobs, control of wealth, accumulated superannuation) boys seem to end up doing very well indeed for themselves once they leave school. The question I wonder no-one ever seems to ask is what happens to all those high achieving girls once they finish school? So few of them ever seem to use their skills as well as boys do. Is it their fault, perhaps? Or, as the voices raised in defence of the ways boys are treated at school argue so vigorously,is there some sort of discrimination in the wider world that works against them? If you push one argument (school is feminised and so holds boys back ) it would seem you must also support the other (the world of work is masculinised and so holds girls back), if you are truly fair minded.
Posted by ena, Thursday, 23 November 2006 2:26:25 PM
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ena,
The 10 point guidelines were developed after considerable work was undertaken. For example:- one research project involved interviewing 1800 boys throughout SA. At no time was it found that boys should be naturally backward or less mature than girls in any grade from grade 1 to grade 12. If the boys had fallen behind the girls in any grade, then this was always attributed to factors other than biology, and up until the early 1980’s, boys were generally ahead of girls in academic results across all grades and all subjects. However you would be free to write to the federal government and tell them that they are wrong based on your observations. Even if it were true that boys were naturally less mature than girls, then teachers would have to make allowances for this, and if any teacher was not making allowances for this, then that teacher would be negligent in their duty of teaching both boys and girls. Posted by HRS, Thursday, 23 November 2006 4:41:35 PM
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Girls have achieved higher marks at school than boys for over 100 years, or since they started attending school in great numbers. We ignored that result until second wave feminism and few went on to uni prior to the 70s. they do better, not because they're brighter ( or because female teachers are necssarily afvouring them) but because they mature emotionally about 2 years earlier than boys - just in time for the big exams.
And far from state schools being bastions of feminist political correctness, most co-ed state schools are now 70% male, 30% female and at my daughters co-ed comprehensive most of their teachers were male, and a more wonderful bunch of warm, funny and sympathetic charcaters you couldn't wish for. funnily enough my daughters didn't seem to notice whether their teachers were male or female, just whether they were good at teaching or not.
Most state schools now run all boy classes and pathways to manhood programs, something as the mother of daughters I felt slightly jealous of. far from them favouring the girls, they were rather left out of special stuff like that. never mind, equlaity isn't about getting exactly the same of everything, its about feeling you are just as valuable to the school you attend as any other student, and my girls certainly felt that.