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The Forum > Article Comments > Tough on crime populism not as popular any more > Comments

Tough on crime populism not as popular any more : Comments

By Anthony Kelly, published 2/11/2006

There are simply too many people, particularly young people, who are in prison and shouldn't be.

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The real question is: do voters take any notice at all of law and order politicking prior to an election.

Politicians can huff and puff about being tough on crime as much as they like. The fact remains that law and order is in the hands of un-elected judges and magistrates over whom the politicians have absolutely no control. We have “mandatory” life sentences for murder, but parole periods are set. How ridiculous! We have “tough” penalties on the books for all sorts of things, but a judge or magistrate can still decide to let offenders off with a good behaviour bond, or a suspended sentence.

Voters are not turned off by law and order rhetoric. They are turned off by the unaccountable, arrogant and out of touch mediocrities who are supposed to be administering the law, and who are being paid too much for failing to do so.
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 2 November 2006 9:41:05 AM
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A group that has as one of its components representatives who believe that a man of about 95kg could walk on water shouldn't talk about trickery.
Posted by Sage, Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:19:58 AM
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Leigh.."Tough on Crime" is the Aussie equivalent of the Philippino slogun "We will rid the country of corruption" :)

They both have an equal chance of happening.

I also think they are both equally insulting to an increasingly educated voting population.

VALUES is where most of us are scratching I think...and a healthy slice OFF Stamp Duty would not go astray either.. (Thanx Steve B) but I'd not elect him simply for the 3 grand he would save me.

In the Libs I see typical 'vote conscious' populism rather than serious policy, so I'll probably vote for FF in our MARGINAL seat :)
VALUES VALUES VALUES....

"A good name is better than great riches." (Prov 22:1)

"A rebuke goes deeper into a man of understanding than a hundred lashes into a fool" (Prov 17:10)

"Better is a dry morsel with quietness, than a house full of feasting with strife". (Prov 17:1)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:24:14 AM
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Another long article from the crimminals perspective that fails to even refer to the victims of crime. How on earth does poor old Maggie get a bagging for the state of crime in the UK. Sorry Mr Kelly you need to go and speak to people who have lost loved ones to murder, to woman who have been raped, to people who have had needles and guns held at their heads. I have spoken to dozens of crimminals in the past and very few have any remorse or thought for the victims. All they want to know is how they can manipulate the system to get their sentences reduced.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 2 November 2006 11:00:47 AM
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BD, you quoated..."A rebuke goes deeper into a man of understanding than a hundred lashes into a fool" (Prov 17:10)" but most of our young offenders are anything but fools. They're manipulative, belligerent, self centered and totally uncaring about those around them. Quite often, kids turn out this way because of poor parenting somewhere along the way coupled with a lack of respect and discipline . Still, for those wayward youths, girls included, a few strokes of the lash would make them think twice before causing harm to others ever again. The jail system only make them smarter and better able to get away with re-offending next time.
Posted by Wildcat, Thursday, 2 November 2006 11:39:16 AM
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It’s amazing how much Western countries focus on law and order, yet, whatever approaches are taken, particularly in the Anglo countries UK, Australia, Canada and the USA, seem not to stem an apparently ever rising level of disrespect for rules, petty theft and unsolicited violence. On the one hand are the conservatives, who demand the strictest of punishment to deter crime, while on the other hand are the warm and fuzzy socialist set, who insist upon compassionate approaches to wean offenders out of their bad ways. Neither approach has made our society better or safer. Whenever a shocking incident occurs, the media and the public vent outrage at the perpetrators. But who is really to blame? I think we all are. My observations in Australia lead me to believe there is something fundamentally wrong with our culture and mentality. We seem overly self-focused, only caring about our own rights and possessions. The result is a dog-eat-dog existence, wherein though we may want to consider others, we know we will be trampled on by another who does not. I see the evidence of our sick mentality everyday in the filthy streets, the litter, vandalism, graffiti, unruly school kids, road rage, & etc, making Australia a really repulsive place in which to live. Sure there are many decent people, but it is our underlying mentality and the environment we create that paves the way for crime. Perhaps “sage” and the rest of us ought to pay more attention to the philosophy of the man who supposedly walked on the water, whether we believe him or not, rather and resorting to ridicule, because it would sure make our society more pleasant. Sadly, I don’t see things improving.
Posted by Robg, Thursday, 2 November 2006 12:02:35 PM
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Runner and others,

'criminal apologists' like the author and myself ARE thinking about the victim, and future potential victims. We are thinking about PREVENTING crime, now and in the future, 'tough on crime' populist policies do not prevent crime. Addressing the social issues that cause people to turn to crime can prevent it.
Posted by Carl, Thursday, 2 November 2006 5:23:39 PM
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Our Prime Minister here in the UK promised to be 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'. He has done his worst on the first issue. We have successfully alienated and demonised the young, the non-white, muslims, people with learning difficulties and mental health labels and single parents; anyone who IS or DOES anything that is not regarded as 'normal' among the predominantly white, middle class, ruling population. At the same time paying lip service to many of the aforementioned through ridiculous politically correct thought policing.

What about the causes of crime? Poverty, mental illness, neglect, education, health; the building blocks of any society that calls itself civilised.

In the uk the wealthiest 10% lose approximately 33% of their income in direct and indirect taxation whilst the poorest 10% lose 39%, mainly through indirect stealth taxes introduced by Blair and Brown. Mental illnesses are created by already too powerful drug companies for control of our minds,our behaviour and our money. Disparate groups are ghettoised then blamed for not understanding one another and when there's no available scapegoat, single parents (or parents generally) are wheeled out for castigation. The areas of governemnt that could make a difference; health and education, are neglected in favour of spending on prisons and wars, neither of which 'the people' want.

The west claims to be civilised whilst civilised behaviour has become a rarity, and I do not refer to the young. Young people for the most part care about the planet, they care about each other, a few who do not, because we as the older generation have failed them have become the perceived norm through press hype and the clamour among politicians of all persuasions to find any excuse to tighten their controls on 'the masses'.

Two pertinent quotes here, the first from a muslim prophet, Hazrat Ali:

'To have respect, you must HAVE respect'

the 2nd from Ghandi, when asked by a young British reporter what he thought about western civilisation:

'I think it would be a very good idea'

I agree with them both.
Posted by meg_to_my_friends, Thursday, 2 November 2006 5:48:40 PM
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Parents accountability is essential if you want to have any hope at fixing this issue.

We recognize that a juvenile is not competent to accept full responsibility for their actions, so who picks up the tab? Who should accept responsibility for the crimes of their children?

In most cases the parents, in a few cases, where the parents have demonstrated historic responsibility yet the child remains willful and anti-social and the parents have sought intervention, then the child should be a ward of the state, subject to the sanctions of the state and thus, to a juvenile custody unit.

Criminal intent can be a genetic abnormality and not just a socially acquired complaint.

Do-Gooders who think they can or will eliminate criminal behaviour by pandering to the criminal are not only risking their own lives and property, they risk everyone else’s lives and property too and I do not take kindly to those who take risks in my name and at my risk.

We are all accountable for our actions, misbehaviour deserves punishment and those who exercise good behaviour deserve protection from the bad.

I find it ironic that those on the left of politics tend to make excuses for the “bad”, whilst simultaneously seeking to intervene and regulate the free trade and commerce of the “good”.
Example,
The greens who would see drug addicts with subsidised access to their addiction in government sponsored shooting galleries whilst the same greens lock themselves to legal registered and operated logging trucks in Melbourne Street (heard on the TV news this AM).

It is enough to make one want to vomit (and the bloke chained to the truck looked like a suitable substitue for a sick-bag).
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 3 November 2006 7:49:15 AM
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Great rant, Col Rouge. You worked yourself up to full indignation by the end, with your favourite whipping boys, the lefties, the greenies, do-gooders (as distinct from do-badders or do-nothings, Col?) and those who try to restrict free trade. As someone on another thread pointed out, you often come over like Alf Garnett crossed with Basil Fawlty and the older Steptoe. It is entertaining, though.

But earlier on in your post there were a few points worthy of further investigation. 'Criminal intent can be a genetic abnormality and not just a socially acquired complaint' - if that is true, what should be done about that, Col? "We are all accountable for our actions". What about the mentally ill? A lot of crime is committed by them. What would you have the authorities do about that? Blame their parents, maybe?

You went off on the wrong direction in your post just when you were beginning to get somewhere. Please expand on these points.
Posted by PK, Friday, 3 November 2006 10:51:25 AM
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wanna prevent crime? legalise all drugs. top idea, read ben eltons 'high society', brilliant

fringe looney, aka Carl
Posted by Carl, Friday, 3 November 2006 9:23:00 PM
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