The Kyoto Protocol is a system of quotas. It is a system that was, in most part, designed by europeans who have demonstrated an uncontested mastery of manipulating quotas for their own benefit at the expense of their competitors.

The best example is the treatment of wood products. Europe is a major importer of wood and paper products, mostly from the third world. And under IPCC rules the emissions from these products are deemed to take place when the tree is cut, in the country it is cut. This is at variance with coal and petroleum for which the emission takes palce when the stuff is actually consumed.

And surprise, surprise, this allows the europeans a huge commercial advantage as their entire packaging, and much of their building sectors, are insulated from greenhouse abatement measures. Yet, for wood exporting nations like Australia, with self sufficient building sectors, there is a major penalty under the Kyoto rules.

Furthermore, Kyoto incorporates THE worst flaw that any quota system can have, ie., a single year (1990) cut-off. This penalises Australia because 1989-90 was an above average year for native vegetation growth rates and this means that any subsequent normal year, or even worse, a drought year, will leave us with a reduced rate of vegetation growth (carbon absorption) that will translate into a need to reduce other emissions by more than our fair share.

Kyoto also conveniently precludes us from claiming credits for our vegetation thickenning and the carbon that is absorbed by our territorial waters. Funny how a bunch of landlocked and oceanically challenged nations could manage to overlook such an important issue, don't you think?

I am getting VERY tired (F'n angry even) of JH saying he is meeting his targets under the Kyoto protocol (which he won't ratify depite being a signatory to the UN - Kyoto is a UNFCCC agreement) like he is some kind of ecologically green God.

JH and Perseus FAIL to mention that, unlike every other devloped nation, Kyoto lets us INCREASE our emissions by 8.2% over 1990 levels - our target is to pollute the world more - not less! How proud we must all be that JH is ensuring we continue to meet those targets while other countries try but fail (to cut emissions - for which they are to be punished still more harshly if they don't achieve the reduction levels chosen by UN members (not European decree) by 2012.

2002 data places Australia 14th in the world in terms of total CO2 emissions produced (it's emissions Kyoto limits) - not bad for a nation of just over 20 million from a world pop of 6,000 million (one third of one percent) - just behind Iran with three times our numbers and who America and JH want to ensure cannot use nuclear power while claiming it is the way we need to go forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

And in similar vein, it would be nice if JH could tell Australians the truth - that it is his rich mates in the coal and Uranium industry's he does not wish to betray - not the advantages Australia has in terms of Sunshine, wind and water, not to mention geothermal, power resources which he is happy to let other countries take advantage of over our own ability to develop and export the technologies while at the same time planning to import nuclear ones at massive public cost.

Perseus.
"fair share" Surely we are beyond this? This is a moral debate and Australia should have greater interest in that, given our stance on other moral debates?
In the Washington post this morning "Nuclear Cleanup Site Has Cities Cleaning Up Financially" Already has cost billions and are perhaps looking forward to an ongoing program of cleanup costing yet more billions. Ok this is an enrichment site cleanup and the cleanup can be expected to cost more than the cleanup of a disused power plant, but I see no recognition by JH of the cost be added to his proposed nuclear power stations.
I'm "jack" of obfuscation, we once lead in alternative power science, thanks to this govt, we are now well down the list for our science was again taken up by other countries who are, and will make a great industry we need.
Let Australia be a leader again and to hell with coal and nuclear.
fluff
PS I have to pay to take trash to the local tip, surely someone should pay to pollute the atmosphere?

Shhhh Fluff!

We can't go telling the truth about ALL the costs of the Nuclear Industry to Australia and the planet we live on - or Little Johhny won't be able to play with us anymore! and his great friend George might not like us - and you know what happens to countries without powerful friends that George doesn't like.

Ronnie and Saddam were once bestest bud's too remember! Or does America usually sell arms to despotic dictators bent on promoting world terrorism? (Silly question!)

Brain Drain exposes his virulent anti-Americanism and leftist leanings. He admits he is not a climatologist or meteorologist, but yet has the temerity to lecture us about climate change.
The debate is certainly not over.
See these comments by Dr Mike Hulme who is Professor of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia, and Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research in this article from Auntie BBC:
“I have found myself increasingly chastised by climate change campaigners when my public statements and lectures on climate change have not satisfied their thirst for environmental drama and exaggerated rhetoric.
It seems that it is we, the professional climate scientists, who are now the (catastrophe) sceptics. How the wheel turns.”
This is not all he says.
Please read the link before getting swept up in the hysteria.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6115644.stm

and this:
http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/canadianPMletter06.html
and this:
http://www.climatescience.org.nz
and this:
http://epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264777
and this:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=the_real_climate_change_catastrophe&ns=PaulDriessen&dt=10/21/2006&page=full&comments=true

Froggie - shouldn't you be extinct by now like a lot of your breed? : )

Be careful with those labels chum - they may come back to bite you on the bum. (I'm not anti-american - I AM anti-anyhypocrisy. As for being leftist, I hate the Chinese government's repression, North Korea's dictatorship and Stalin's murderous oppression of his people - but i've never lived in those places so excuse me if i attack my own government's record while it still has the right of reply and the chance to show me it can do better)

I need a day or two to digest the website avalanche... watch this space.