Let’s get some facts straight here;

• Remco gets a regulated wages subsidy
• He was given a pay rise to compensate for the imposition of the GST, this is because it is included in the CPI, caused inflation, causing regulated wage increase’s (actually regulated tax avoidance)
• He gets redundancy payment by regulation from his employer if his services are no longer needed.
• Hi dole payments are based on the highly regulated (hence subsidized) Australian labour market. And don’t come at that story that you deserve more because you are “Australian”, (then so are regional Australian people.)
• He gets access to excellent health services, unlike regional Aust.
• He gets access to excellent education services, we often have to pay, after tax, for this “right”
• He gets easier access to 80% subsidy for tertiary.
• He gets access to heavily subsidized public transport from the public purse.
• He gets the first home buyers grant, (try getting one on a farm?)
• His house doubles in value, it is tax free
• Farm doubles in value ( oh really) and it is CGT taxable
• We buy water, does not get supplied, still pay, he still gets water, at below inflation increases

The farm gate price for wheat has drifted around $125 a tonne since 1971.
With so called farm gate to retail shelf productivity improvement, the price of weeties and bread has gone up not down.
Still trying to work that one out!

Agriculture is told it gets a fuel subsidy. What I am still trying to work out, is that it s cheaper on the world market that what farmers pay for fuel, AFTER the subsidy!
Again, still trying to work that one out.
After all a subsidy should mean that it is cheaper than the world market, not more expensive.
A negative subsidy result should be recorded here, not a positive one.

How amazingly altruistic of Yabby if you feel you cannot sell your land because it is going to what you call a “shark”. For goodness sake, put your family first – sell to the land sharks and let them bear the crunch of next years’ drought. And remember, that one-in-hundred year drought, may become a one-in-ten year drought so your “Sharks” will suffer wont they? Better them than you and what suckers those sharks must be.

You simply can NOT get away from the fact that the value of land (ie the business) is based on one thing: past and projected earnings – capitalisation of anticipated earning. And Yabby (and Perseus) capitalised in those earnings, is that drought insurance paid by the city people that you want to shove off as living off your back.

So FREE (paid by city people) drought insurance does one thing for you, it is capitalised to RAISES YOUR LAND VALUES (your superannuation fund!).

That jingoistic crouching farmer with the dead lamb that will no doubt appear on TV next year or the next, supported by your trade union, the Country (whoops) the National Party, will probably mean that you can spend your one per cent of earnings that would cover your one in a hundred year bad event. What a con.

Why not let your “land sharks” take the brunt. Why don’t you put your family first and let the sharks suffer by selling to them?

Mate, you’ve had two centuries and if you cant get it right by now you’ll never will.

Besides there are those out there doing well laughing up their sleeves at the fringe with their lambs at the ready for the TV camera. Leave or shut up. There’s many a drought ahead and I’d be damned to support the guy with sand running through his hand. I feel only sorry for that dead lamb.

Sheesh Remco, it seems to me that you remain confused :) One moment
you call for market based solutions, so I offer you a logical,
practical, market based solution, which you then refuse to accept!

So I will explain it again, slowly:

Neither you nor anyone else can yet accurately predict rainfall,
so you have no idea as to what will happen next year or the year
after that.

The best thing farmers can do, apart from holding large reserves
of fodder etc, is to quit a large % of livestock, before land
is bare etc, if things look like getting tough. Yet the moment
things look like getting tough, prices drop through the floor,
as with a large forced supply (due to climate) and limited
slaughter capacity, thats what the market dictates. So many
don't sell at low values, hoping it will rain after all.

The problem is not that the meat produced is worth less on world
markets. The problem is the inflexible nature of the meat industry,
due to Govt regulations. Any of those works could double capacity
by working another shift, if they had the labour. If they had
the labour, that would increase demand, thus prices would not
fall through the floor. SE Asia is closer to here in the West
then Sydney. A planeload of workers, able to process yet another
million sheep, is just a few hours away. So simple yet its
not allowed by your city based laws! You will not let a market
based solution happen! So don't preach to me about market based
solutions, when you deny them to me.

That kind of solution would let farmers plan for droughts and
be ready for them, not get screwed by the vagaries of an artificial
market, due to your inflexibility.

Remco, I will suggest that you go for a drive out of your cosy little suburban life, and find me a farmer that is currently doing well. A proper farmer too, not a Pitt St farmer. I've yet to find one laughing up their sleeve, and I've spent the last 3 weeks travelling NSW from Vic to QLD borders.

Gotta say though, there seems to be a misinterpretation of the fuel rebate that farmers receive, even amongst farm supporters on this thread. Guys, the fuel rebate is not a subsidy and it is not meant to make fuel prices for Australian farmers equal to world prices. It is simply the refund of the road users tax - a Federal Govt tax. Farmers still pay state govt excise on fuels used in production. The reason that the road-users tax (of $0.38143) is refunded to farmers is to recognise those farm vehicles that are not used on public roads - not too hard to understand is it. Farmers dont get a rebate for all fuel that they use, they must keep records to show what fuel is used off-road. Fuel used in their private cars, or in trucks to take grain to the silo is not rebateable. And there are audit programs - it is checked up on, like any other type of tax.

KAEP, interesting information, I wait with bated breath. However, please dont be so naive as to think that good rain now will help farmers. What the likes of Remco dont realise is that even if good rains are received now, farmers have already lost this year's crop. They will have no income until at least November next year. Between now and then they also have to find anywhere from $50000 - $500,000 to replant next year. They will also have to repurchase fertiliser, as most got crops up this year, which used much of the available nutrients, but then died due to the lack of follow up rain. This is the other problem that those from the city do not understand - rain does not bring instant income.

How about regional Australia succeeds from the nation?

That will stop this debate in its tracks and please all.

It will mean urban people will not have to help during droughts, so they win.

It also means we will not have to;
• Pay for the car industry
• Pay for their public transport
• Pay for high school education that many do NOT receive
• Pay for subsidies fro many other industries

All these, and more are ongoing costs

Drought assistance is to a few farmers occasionally.

For instance, the total “promised” is $5600 a farmer so far, and with a national drought, really a drop in the ocean.

I see it as a win --win for all.

You rural people are right, I do NOT get it.

Why with all the duress, deprivations, inequities, higher costs, lower quality communications services, and feeling hard done by, why do you stay?

Why do you put Australia before your own family?

And so why, as most are sitting on valuable properties, don’t you sell out and join the privileged – ie. city dwelllers?

I come to one conclusion, you prefer to be there.

And if you do, then why should I pay you for the terrible droughts you are going to incur as the climate warms up?

I keep coming to one conclusion and you can guess that one.