W,

Doesn't homophobia mean fear of homosexuals? If you think someone is scared why aren't you more gentle? Aren't you worried about making them even more scared?

"Young people ... christian value of loving one’s neighbour doesn’t extend to them."

Are you sure that you aren't overgeneralizing?

I think you would agree that there is a view in many churches that homosexual behaviour is sinning and I think that is the type of church you are referring to. I acknowledge that you apparently strongly believe that to be theologically incorrect.

Nevertheless does that mean that people with that view won't follow the general principles of loving one's neighbour when dealing with someone attracted to the opposite sex? Do you think that they would hunt them down and beat them up? Do you think that they would deny them food when they are hungry because of their homosexual feelings? Do you think that they would deny them shelter because of their feelings? You may not agree with their theological view but the mainstream Christian view is that they should be extended love in that situation.

"Typically they are forced out of their community of faith,"

Do they go quietly? The visible ones seem to drop those feelings and develop an attraction for the opposite sex. I am not suggesting that the ones I have been aware of are the only examples or even typical. I am just saying that your ones don't seem very visible. Perhaps they should let others know of their problems. Perhaps their fears about the reactions of their peers might be unrealistic.

"Yes, bashing and abusing same-sex-attracted people is homophobia."

Fear of homosexuals?

"However the reason this happens is because you and others think that one rule for straight people and another rule for gays is OK."

Do you think that any discrimination relating to a group of people results in them being beaten up? For example if children are not allowed to drive a car people will hate them and beat them up? Do you think that the Christian belief that someone should not commit adultery makes people hate married people or even married people who feel an attraction to someone other than their spouse?

"This is the foundation of homophobia, the justification that simple-minded bigots with baseball bats use for going after gays."

That is plainly incorrect if referring specifically to Christians. That is totally out of whack with Christian beliefs. You seem to be trying to lay an unrealistic guilt trip on people because you disagree with their theology.

Even for negativity toward homosexual behaviour generally your argument is no less a leap of logic than the thugs use in justifying their cruelty.

"... just because you’re not wielding a bat yourself doesn’t relieve you of complicity in the crime."

Hate is not a logical extension of the belief that homosexuality is wrong. If anyone used that as an excuse it would be no more than an excuse.

That said the benefit to the homosexual of the Christian discrimination with regard to homosexuals is that Christianity can never be used as an excuse to beat up homosexuals. If people are going to consider homosexuality wrong homosexuals would be far better having them all convert to Christianity so that the belief can't be used as an excuse.

The occult idol of Jesus represents exclusion and bigotry. The bottom line is what do Christians believe happens to non-believers? Yes Christians have always claimed they hold moral values, even while they were throwing little children onto pyres accusing them of witchcraft. The only values universal amongst Christians is bigotry and exclusionism. Again what do Christians believe happens to non-believers?

It is no coincidence that in Australia the more morally corrupt and policy incompetent and more dictatorial the politician the more overtly Christian they are. Mainstream parties aside, fringe cult based parties such as Family First have done far more damage in division and accusation to Australia in short time spans than 200 years of homosexuality.

Christianity and Jesus is morally repugnant but I as a person holding no superstitious beliefs do not call for Christianity to be banned and that is the difference. Perhaps if Christians gave up the lie that they hold good morals and tried to heal their hatred of others. The hatred is obviously out of frustration that god does not exist and Christians are not immortal. Stop peering into gay and defacto windows like a bunch of perverted brown shirts and keep the worship of their beloved idols to themselves. Gays and defacto’s ect don’t advertise on TV so who cares what they do? Christians get over it. Look at your selves, the worship of Jesus is homoerotic is it not? If not- how not?

The correct term in reference to "brown-shirts" and Christian bigots with their psychological problem towards to homosexuals ,mjipb, is not "homophobes" but "heterosexists". They are not afraid of homosexuals in this case. They have no reason to fear the prey when they are in predatory mode. The correct word is "heterosexist". That is, heterosexuals assuming that the other is inferior to the point of no longer deserving basic human rights.

Imagine if gay people had the audacity to turn the situation upside-down and inside-out. Imagine homosexual questioning the validly of the need for heterosexuals in society.

Writer and celebrity Harvey Fierstein plays with this notion in the following monolog:

Harvey Fierstein on Heterosexuals ("In The Life") on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAv_DxP7lJM&mode=related&search=

This one is quite fun. It is a ridiculous idea, even Fierstein ironically sums this up in the end.

So is the studid sentiment from the other direction. There are various ways of looking at the world, and Christians do not have the monopoly over human intelligence just yet.

Perhaps "homophobia" in this context is actually a secret fear of possessing latent homosexuality oneself.

Like all phobias it's also an irrational hatred and a display of social intolerance.

It seems to coexist in people who make a lot of noise about how people should live their lives and how they should embrace identical values and beliefs.

Pretty much the same approach as used in all religions.

I am intrigued by this Christian bashing.

From my perspective, it is a mostly an underground type of thing. And if not there, then only out on the streets. A question for saintflethcer and west.

I think i have challenged both before. And so again, if i may.

West, this notion of homoertic Jesus worshiping is a bit unique. Im going to take a stab in the dark and suggest you are a city person. That then sets the scence for the next bit. I am not, and have noticed that the notion if things gay is but new. Take Broke Back Mountin. It is a new genre, generated in the city, or in this case holywood. Because city centric and ignorant of the facts critique prevails in certain social sets, does that make the critique correct? And, also as i have suggested before, some slag you write is mere gossip, and in no way fits into Australian social life.

So i dont get what you are trying to alledge.

And for saintstretcher, if crime is arising allong with the embrace of all things gay (not happy) and leftist, how do you justify your claims. Are you suggesting that hordes of christians are about the streets in suits and ties beating up grannys, drag racing cars on skateboards, wearing lick on tattoos so they can frighten the law, and hooning about in mercs, benzes and alfa's. Leaping out to grab chicks for sex, selling their elite girlfreinds for sex in the back, and strolling into cafes everywhere with suitcases full of weed?

Man if what you both are saying is right, we really do live in a sick world. Tell me where you are at man, so i can come and have a look-see.