It never ceases to amaze me how the truely Dark Forces you represent Col - are capable of spinning the plain truth into a load of maccartyist nonsense about socialist and the communist threat (as if anybody care – but you obviously miss the good old days of the cold war) and twist it all into your masters – the big industry’s - everlasting tune of - ‘don’t worry be happy – just carry on – let us use and abuse nature!

The choir of people who has been allowed for years now to freely put their spins on reality and twist the mind of the public and ruling politicians in Washington and Canberra – and their little followers such as Dr Carter, and the Stephanys’ and Cols’ – are all nothing but good and obedient servants of the dark and evil forces of greed and narrow-mindedness that drives certain parts of big industry!

Yet don’t be too hard on them - they don’t know better.

Most of them are city-slickers at heart if not by fact – they do truly believe that true nature is urban backyards and that it is certain big-industry generosity, high share prises and what they term as “good economy” that pays for the high-life, pools and air condition they enjoy. Life just seems like that to them.

Truth is they are not yet aware that it really is nature that pays their monthly bills!

Yes Col,there was some satire there that illuded KAEP.I agree that Kaep does make a great contribution to debate,however before we all fall into an absolute depression and despair,we have to get our facts right.It is no good we in Aust.punishing ourselves when we make up less than 0.03% of the world's pop.

The really big polluters are all in the Northern Hemisphere and economic rankings should have nothing to do with restraint.Countries that let their populations run amuck have to shoulder that burden.We have given aid too freely and now billions more will suffer.How is that being kind?

KAEP,

Re: "BT, We know you have no scientific qualifications by your lack of specificity."

I have a Bachelor of Science and post graduate qualifications in an area which one might describe as applied science. (I am not a climate scientist). Pull your head in.

Mr Ristinge “little followers such as Dr Carter, and the Stephanys’ and Cols’ – are all nothing but good and obedient servants of the dark and evil forces of greed and narrow-mindedness”

Oh I like that , I am the follower of “dark and evil forces”.

Next you will claim I sacrifice children and new born lambs and drink their blood.

Mr Ristinge you sound as paranoid as the trolls who stalk trades hall and demand the right to command and direct the proletariat.

As for “Truth is they are not yet aware that it really is nature that pays their monthly bills!”

Here is the real difference in our view.
I suspect Mr Ristinge is the sort who demands we all live in identical and primitive misery, where we go to bed at sundown because the power stations have closed to “preserve human existence”.

And that is what Mr Ristinge offers, “existence”.

Forget “life” and expression and choice. You have his permission to “exist” and no more, at an abject level and oh innovation, development, management of resources, that is all disallowed because it is “against nature”.

I know what pays my monthly bills, it is not “big business”, it is my own effort.

I suspect I do just as much to support the nature and the environment as you.

It is the nature of man is to “manage nature” and manage is environment. That is why we live in house instead of caves. Europe has been “managed” for at least 2 millennia.

We are supported by “nature” but simply because not all of us share your apparent desire to tear down the institutions which make much of commerce possible does not make us “anti-nature”.

It just makes you look stupid for suggesting such a thing.

I suggest you go find a “spinning Jenny” to destroy.

Arjay – I could never understand why Kyoto placed restraint on some and not on all nations. I figure, ultimately we all breath the same air. Yes, fix “population” and the rest is miraculously fixed too

Col,

Surely the fact that the fast-growing Asian countries were exempt from Kyoto is a clear acknowledgement that the science of global warming is NOT compelling.

For if it were true that human emissions were going to damage the planet dangerously, or beyond repair, then when on earth would some the largest culprits want to be exempted? Why would China and India (not to mention US and Australia) want to subject their own and other peoples to grave damage - and why would the other nations of the world permit them to contribute towards damage to all - if it was certain, or even highly likely, that the damage would be (i) human caused, (ii) irreparable, and (iii) preventable?

None of points (i) to (iii) can be proven, because not only can no-one show that severe climate damage is on the way, but also no-one can show that any (global) human-caused climate change is taking place at all!

Given that the basis of the warming alarmism is circumstantial evidence, alarmist speculation and computer games playing, it is no wonder that India, China etc. insisted on being exempted from imposing damage on their growing economies in pursuit of the chimera of "controlling climate".

It seems to have escaped the notice of many that in addition to becoming more innovative and successful at industrial production, the Asian countries are also investing immensely in education and research. In other words they are becoming smarter, and are now much too smart to sign up to unprovable climate alarmism.

Cathy