Hello Reg,

You were one post in front of me. I would like to establish a more permanent contact. Busy this evening, but will phone soon. I will give you some notice, via this site.

My recognition of the value of your insights into the Chinese classics comes in part from noting how 19th & 20th century science has become limited in its vision.

I look forward to our talk.

Welcome bushbred,

You have made quite a few points.

With regards the Marshall Plan, some might hold the US was trying to increase the potential market demand for its products. Germany suffered under WWI reparations and the West did not forgive the debt in the 1930s. I think Germany may have even had to borrow to meet its instalments. Thus, creating a debt spiral, until it stopped paying.

Marshall aid was offered to the Eastern Bloc, but was refused, for fear of Western/US hegemony.

In the 1950s, we were much closer to England. England entered the Common Market. This event influenced our relationship with England. Albeit, England was for a period of time was in the bad books of the US over the Suez Canal. Hence, we, and not the US helped the UK with its nuclear programme. (Remember, Sir Mark Oliphant headed up a Los Alamos team.)

In the 1919-1960 period, colonisation was also an important issue. Rooseveldt was opposed to colonisation. He died in Office. Truman, who replaced him, didn't want upset the French. Obviously, having implications for Vietnam. The true issue here may have been Nationalism, rather than Communism.

I agree with Reginald, in that, we can learn plenty from China. With our focus on scientic method (which is good), we have gone overboard (which is bad) in avoiding non-positivist approaches altogether. Thus, pretty much throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Oliver

I will look forward to hearing from you

Best regards

Reg

Many thanks for your enlightening comments, Oliver. Would say that in my Post, did over emphasise the change of feelings many of us oldies have experienced about the US since the Marshal Plan. But I guess you agree I did it for a reason.

Still get a kick out of watching MASH, so before my own Last Post, wish we could together and fathom it all out. Reckon most of the trouble now in the world, is greed getting in the way of wisdom and understanding - or maybe just plain commonsense?

Cheers, George C, WA.

Reg,

Warm greetings. I will call you, today, 5.30-6.30 pm, Canberra time. Doesn't matter if you are out, I will try again.

Best wishes.

bushbred,

Haven't seen MASH for a while, as I live in Hong Kong. Great show.

With respect to ethics, it has been noted the Chinese ethics has its own spin on the golden rule, "Do not unto others, as you would not have them do unto you". [Christian] Western culture maintains; do good things; Chinese culture maintains, don't do bad things. There is a subtle East/West difference.

With respect the mashall Plan, maybe its exchange altruism. I do good by you; you do good by me. China might look through the lenses of hierarchary, the five relationships and deference: Vassals you recognise me and I will be conscious of your needs. The difference is, the West-Other encounter the main arrows go both ways. With China-Other, that the "Other" must define itself in relation to the Middle Kingdom.

Civizational oligarchies [West, China, Orthodox, Islam...] have been acting like tectonic plates for centuries. Along the way, all have competed for ascendancy. Meanwhile, there have been ideological, societal and technological transfers. Anthopologists maintain [common sense], ideology is the hardest to transform, next social factors next hardest, and technology, the easiest.

Reginald's position that the West can learn of classic Chinese writings would seem to confront Western fixation of scientic methodology [only]. Herein, supposedly, we do reap rewards from our mega-knowledge, but we become narrowed with respect to the type of knowledge. [Hope that is a fair representation?] Albeit, there might be "some" early Western insights in quantum mechanics and the philosophy of science [e.g., the role of purpose in epistemology].


Kind regards.

BB1
It seems much is being hidden about the real state of things in Iraq, especially as certain branches of the Coptic-style Christian churches who have been getting on with the Muslims have been forced to leave. Social and political philosophers are really beginning to wonder.

Below is a brief on a deep look at America by Dr Denis Kenny, former tutor at Harvard and Fordham universities

The United States of America has long been regarded as the most generously endowed piece of real estate on the face of this planet. It has inherited from Mother Nature, and appopriated from the Indian nations, an immense wealth of natural resources. It is the first nation in history, moreover, officially to promise its citizens a basic right to the pursuit of happiness, a promise unprecedented in the annals of previous social orders.

Why, then, since the close of the 19th century, and the closing decades of the 20th century, has the US killed and continued to kill men, women and children, and to hunger for, and plunder the resources of nearly every peoples on this planet? Why, as many US patriots have asked over the last two hundred years, have not US governments remained contentedly within their borders and not endlessly wrangled with the less endowed nations of this world?

(Maybe colonial Pax Britannica could have been accused of the same thing, Anglophonic Americana having only inherited from the Brits?)

According to Dr Kenny, perhaps more than any other culture or nation, the US is a product of a complex, but identifiable configuration of memetic influences - and it is interesting to list the most important of these and the role they have played in the shifting sagas of US foreign policy.

The Puritans of New England were the first to encase within a political framework not only a deep commitment to success in this world, but that such an achievement was an assurance of religous salvation.

Further, unlike the secularising tendencies of European culture, the Americans have periodically engaged in religous revivals to maintain the religous spirit of the first settlers.

BB2

Dr Kenny has two other memes, which contribute to the complex configuration of US culture and consciousness. The second and probably the most significant - Rational Enlightenment. The main early actors - Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Benjamin Franklin. All were not Puritans, but Unitarians, Deists, and outright agnostics or atheists.

The third consists of the frontier meme, but as adventurers and pirates et al, were and are still common to Western advancement, we might suggest that in the US they could have evolved from both of the main US historical personas.

Further, as regards the above two main US memes, we might suggest we now have similar in Australia. John Howard and Peter Costello’s published interests regarding the Hillsong Church - which does imply that different to the teachings of the early Jesus and the Sermon on the Mount, for many modern Australians Christian success in business and politics could be an assurance for a ticket to Heaven.

Us Australians having had so much regard for America as explained in a previous Post, one wonders strongly? While some blame America’s overdone role in Vietnam, and over-reach in the Middle-East, others blame the atomic arming of Israel in the 1970s, and the subsequent great increase in Arab suicide bombing. Also as social philosophers point out, suicide bombing is not only related to the Islamic psyche. The Tamil Tigers hold the record by far, well over 400 cases, in fact.

Finally, as seemingly open-minded students do we need to discuss Dr Kenny’s rather discreet though obvious targetting of a US Christianity which obviously favours more the Old Testament - any means to a good end - doctrine which unfortunately is all too similar to the Lutheran bishop in Nazi Germany who suggested to certain members of his desperately worried clergy, that if you do really believe in the Spirit, despite what is happening in our society, your Spirit will be cleansed after death.

The whole makes one glad that he has learnt to temper some of these worrying new Christian beliefs with Socratic Reasoning.