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The Forum > Article Comments > The death of student politics > Comments

The death of student politics : Comments

By Nick Christie, published 28/9/2006

Most students don’t have the time, energy or financial freedom to charge down Queen Street screaming fanatically about global warming.

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Yep, let's do a John Howard and roll back society. But first let's not revise history: I was a student in 1972, I did attend protests but, despite what others might like to remember over a bottle of 1968 Barossa Cabernet most protesters weren't students. There was general community involvement in these issues.

I'm sorry to see the demise of student unions, they offered lots of worthwhile services that will probably be taken up by the private sector but let's not get over romantic about them. They may have fostered lots of politicians but also many worthwhile politicians weren't Union presidents etc. There's also the question as to whether university elites do make worthwhile national leaders.

Lots of time was spent lying on the grass (or smoking it) but not too much was spent in "discussing, analysing and planning for change". For me the alternate idea of gym classes or volunteerism doesn't seem such a bad concept, but then again my views were probably formed in the 70's.

The whole tennant of your article is inward looking and is best summed up in this: "How can you expect business students from Hong Kong to be genuinely affected by Australian troop deployment in Afghanistan?" The answer is: they are people of the world. Are you, or are you just annoyed that your career as a student politician has been stymied?
Posted by PeterJH, Thursday, 28 September 2006 10:32:54 AM
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“When asked to describe UQ’s atmosphere in the early 70s, his response is swift. “It was frantic. If you weren’t drinking or partying, you were shouting each other down in wild ideological debate or attending political rallies.”

Thus we had the worst batch of boofheads ever to come out of universities. The same boofheads, including Negus, are still out there, whining and white-anting anything that doesn’t fit with their warped view of the world.

The double standards of these people are amazing. They don’t wish to comply with many of the compulsory behaviours and rules that keep society together when the rules don’t suit their beliefs; but touch their sacred compulsory unionism – which many of their fellows object to – and, my oh my; the carry-on!

The idea of taxpayer-funded eduction at any level is not to have students playing at politics while they are still wet behind the ears. It is to qualify people for jobs, and to hopefully produce a few who will be of some use to society.

“The loss of the student voice represents a loss for society. In Negus’ view”. No, Nicholas. The sharp reduction in student ratbaggery has been a gain for society. Fortunately, the students you interviewed seem to have more sense than you do. And they probably don’t have to go to a has-been hack like Negus for advice
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 28 September 2006 10:47:19 AM
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Yeah, but Peter, you had that choice. In times gone by, students had the luxury of getting involved.
These days, Ausstudy isn't enough to life off, pluse with HECS you face a hell of a financial hangover after university.

Past generations had the luxury of attending university and being financially secure without working a job or two. Those same generations have largely been the decision makers who decided this generation wouldn't have that same opportunity.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 28 September 2006 10:49:34 AM
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Universities are still a hotbed of student activism; of that there can be no doubt. You need look no further than Kylie Moon.
Posted by Sage, Thursday, 28 September 2006 10:55:48 AM
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The death of student unionism is symptomatic of Australia's lurch to the right. The mantra now is "I'm all right Jack and stuff the rest". Plus students are too busy working to pay off their HECS debt. Australian apathy will continue to increase and politicians will be able to get away with murder, literally.

The question is, where will our future politicians come from, and what will they have ever seriously thought about before they get to parliament.

We'll end up with more unimaginative, uncreative, backward looking, reactionary politicians, just like Howard. God help us.
Posted by AMSADL, Thursday, 28 September 2006 11:34:07 AM
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In the early 70s conscription would have been a real motivator. Once you finish uni you (or your mates or brothers) may get drafted. As good a reason as any to get your voice heard I imagine.

I studied in the 80s and that issue was far from our minds. Politics was confined to the arts faculty and the only thing that rallied every institute to its feet were Dawkin's threats of administration fees.
Posted by gusi, Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:50:49 PM
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TurnRightThenLeft said "Past generations had the luxury of attending university and being financially secure without working a job or two."

Can I please say that this is overstated nonsense. Until the early 70's there was no free university and only the wealthy could attend. By the mid-80's, the money tap had been turned off again. One part of one generation had the luxury of free university entry (apart from the horrendous union costs) and the only ones who ever lived securely on government funding were living at home.

Anyway, turning to the article, the author writes about the students of Paris. Bingo. Youth unemployment is around 28% in France because the idiots believe the world owes them a living. So a craven government allows a mob of uneducated, spoilt brats terrorise them into maintaining bad employment policy instead of throwing them into gaol to get what the world does owe them. Well, thank God we won't have students rioting in Australia anymore.

Secondly, the author lists Gillard, Beazley, Abbott, Costello and Stott Despoja as alumni of student politics. I think I can rest my case right here. A greater pack of dorks and whackers its rarely been my pleasure to think about. From a whining left wing feminist with delusions of grandeur and poor policy skills to the vacuous captain of the girls hockey team in Parliament.

Well, I'm at work right now but, when I get home, I'll have a quiet drink to celebrate the death of student politics. The death of noise, bombast, left wing idiocy and arrant ignorance.
Posted by Kevin, Thursday, 28 September 2006 12:59:05 PM
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I just passed the UTS and saw posters everywhere glorifying Cuba and Hugo Chavez' Venezuela. I don't know where the author of this article gets the idea that the students' protests are being stifled or are being damaged by 'political correctness'. If there is any political correctness, it's the continuing glorification of communism/socialism, in spite of the 100 million victims of Mao, Stalin, Kim il Sung and many others, and the blindness for the abysmal state of human rights in dictatorships like Iran, North Korea, Cuba and many more, where any dissenting voice is still being stifled.
Posted by KeesB, Thursday, 28 September 2006 1:06:01 PM
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I for one do think it is a huge shame that student politics has declined. It's not just left politics- you don't hear right wing groups speaking out much either. Of course due to the lack of political debate, most students accept the status quo which is currently quite right wing, but they dont' identify themselves politically.
I think it's extremely sad because, as one person has pointed out already, these students will be some of the future leaders of the country and their understanding of world and national issues is extremely limited.
As a current University student, I often feel quite alienated when I want to discuss anything that might remotely relate to politics. I mean a girl in my sociology class did not even know what apartheid was! I don't think that this lack of interest in anything outside our own lives can possibly be taken lightly.
Posted by Powak, Thursday, 28 September 2006 1:16:08 PM
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cheers kevin. students, students, students. that's all we ever seem to hear. I have yet to encounter a student who pulls his/her own weight. where do all these students end up after graduation ? does anyone know what ridiculously small percentage of graduates actually become useful members of society ? most end up in bureaucratic positions which enables them to continue dreaming all day long. do you think a sensible section of society dreamed up political correctness. i don't think so. all the nonsensical crap that plagues our society comes from those idiological ignoramuses.
Posted by pragma, Thursday, 28 September 2006 1:51:03 PM
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Pragma,

Comments such as yours are completely pointless and add nothing to any sort of meaningfull debate about the existance of student unions. However, in the interest of venting my spleen, I will retort:

"I have yet to encounter a student who pulls his/her own weight"
You must hang around the Eastern suburbs of Sydney or Peppermint grove in Perth as 70-80% of full-time students are, at any time in employment. In fact, many report an inability to keep up with course content due to the hours required to work to survive, and many live below the poverty line (see the senate report of student poverty for stats). With part-time students, the the ratio in emplyment is higher

"where do all these students end up after graduation ? does anyone know what ridiculously small percentage of graduates actually become useful members of society ?"

Ever visited a doctor, or been tended to be a nurse? Hired an accountant? Ever driven on a highway designed by an engineer? Or flown in a plane? How about Australia's commodities boom, driven by geologists, mathematicians and engineers. Former mine sites are rehabilitated by environmental scientists and engineers. The list is endless. All these professions had one thing in common, they were all students once. Many students, from a range of disiplines, got their ideas of social justice from student politics

"all the nonsensical crap that plagues our society comes from those idiological ignoramuses"
No. Nonsensical (sic) crap comes from ignoramuses with ill-thoughout opinions on things they know very little about. Not people who study for five years to become a doctor or journalist
Posted by ChrisC, Thursday, 28 September 2006 3:23:34 PM
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^^^
Nice (and well deserved) smackdown Chris - couldn't have put it better myself!
Posted by chris_b, Thursday, 28 September 2006 3:33:42 PM
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Great to see that most students today have seen the futility of acting like ferals in order to be anti authority. I would not like to see the days come back when morons throw urine over soldiers who were ordered to go to Vietnam.
Most at uni these days have seen the results of the 'free thinking permissive 70's 'which has led to many kids ending up without dads and families in dissaray. I take great heart when many young today laugh at the ideologies of the Whitlam/Hawke era. Thankfully its because students do think more these days that they don't go off in droves into the socialist way of thinking.MOst students now do what they went to uni to do (study). If they want to be political they can join parties or get involved off campus
Posted by runner, Thursday, 28 September 2006 4:14:30 PM
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University campuses seem to be overun by over-grown children. The important factors in their 'society' are: sports, fashion and big-brother. A completely unfounded generalisation I know - but have you met the college students?

Interest in politics is something which develops with time, or, as has been the case in the past, during radical movements.

Radicalism is no longer fashionable, nor even moderation. Instead we have a strange form of tolerance, in which any belief that excludes any other is offensive.
And politics are naturally offensive.
Posted by frostey, Thursday, 28 September 2006 6:05:54 PM
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As one now going on 86, who early in retirement from the farm, took a part-time university course in the Humanities in 1977, and could say that social studies students at the time possibly were allowed too much to say.

Maybe the tutors were too liberal as well, maybe even radical about the reasons for our participation in the Vietnam War, even more radical about the role of Henry Kissinger a few years before, for advising the attack on Cambodia in order to block a main supply route for the Viet Cong.

It is certainly now the time with our world in such a mess possibly through faulty decisionmaking by our present major powers to look to the more ethical areas of our universities to try to find lessons from history.

Unfortunately it also can be seen from the above, that it is the Humanities sections that could be the most worry to an ultra-conservative government such as we have now. And the worry goes further, in that it is the Humanities which encourages debate in things like human rights, etc, as well as the environment, which of course in a discussion always boils down to a test of looking for a fair go.

Certainly as proven with one-party governments, laws and even ethics and morals can be altered to suit a critical situation as happened with Nazi Germany and to a large extent Soviet Russia.

A point to remember about ultra-conservative governments, is the change brought to Britain by Margaret Thatcher, which earlier proved its advantages. However it is interesting how Thatcher disapproved of the apparently radical tactics of Nelson Mandela later. Further even after Mandela’s comparatively peaceful victory over the South African arpathaidists more recently, Thatcher was apparently still of the same mind?

As one during the present world crisis who has taken a revived deep interest in a global balance of power, mainly for peace, one could believe that shutting down extra ways for Humanities students to intellectually converse, etc, is also a way of putting the handbrake on what we might term democratic decency
Posted by bushbred, Thursday, 28 September 2006 7:09:21 PM
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chris c, i hope you're a young person because then you'll have an opportunity to go out and work and learn alongside those noble professions you mentioned. however, be prepared for the shock of how few competent people you will encounter among those with diplomas and certificates as long as their arms.
my original remark was based on what percentage of those (academic rent-a-crowd )students actually go on (past BA) to enter a profession which enables them to pay their way in society instead of constantly bleating for more funding. can you produce figures ? i'm sure the answer would be of interest to many.
Posted by pragma, Thursday, 28 September 2006 7:20:59 PM
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Senator Stott-Despoja was President of her Students' _Association_ (the political/activist body that organises rallies and provides representation), not the Adelaide University Student Union (the body that provides services).

The Student's Association is _part of_ the Student Union, not the Union in itself.

David Jackmanson
http://www.letstakeover.blogspot.com

What is the pseudo-left?
http://www.lastsuperpower.net/disc/members/568578247191
Posted by David Jackmanson, Thursday, 28 September 2006 10:24:15 PM
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some good comments on the forum, especially from Chris C.

The VSU legislation was simply nasty, I agree that there needed to be reform, my mother was working full time as a teacher and was commissioned to study her masters, she got basically no time on campus but had to pay very high student union fees.

The universities have got a bit to answer for, they were too inflexbile,there should have been exemptions, particuarly for part-time students.

However, the Vice Chancellors did eventually come up wtih a compromise, a compulsory amenities fee for most students, none of it going to student unions.

This was a very reasonable compromise and would have saved services on campuses instead on turning them into production lines for the workforce.

The govts. inflexibilty is indicative of their pettiness. They were unwilling to negotiate and have consequently made University a less enjoyable experience for many thousands of students.
Posted by Carl, Friday, 29 September 2006 9:17:28 AM
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"The death of student unionism"
What a joke. The death of compulsory student unionism maybe. But why should anyone be forced to be a part of it? So much for freedom of association.

If student unionism is to survive it should survive on it's own two feet, not because people are forced against their will to join it. Otherwise, you are just forcing some people to subsidize the political activity of others.
Posted by Alan Grey, Friday, 29 September 2006 11:28:53 AM
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Have you ever picked up a campus newspaper produced by the student unions? They are staggeringly, immodestly stupid. They are the most visible expressions of what student union activists think (if that's the word I want). If anything, I am amazed that the rest of the student population has not been out in force to demand their money back years ago.

You open the article with talk of "the end of student unions"? Please note, Mr Arts/Law student - the union has NOT been abolished, only the compulsion to join. You are free to spend your $136 on student union fees. Yes, it is true, look it up if you don't believe me.

The problem you ought to grapple with is that now the student unions have to provide something worth $136. Judging from the campus newspapers, do you think they can come up with any ideas?

Me neither.
Posted by Peter Abelard, Friday, 29 September 2006 12:14:28 PM
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I'm a recent entrant to uni as a mature age external student - the abolishment of compulsory union fees couldn't have come at a better time for me.

Textbooks and HECS are a big enough tangible expense without throwing in the intangible, hard to justify, fee for 'services' neither wanted nor unattainable.
Posted by relda, Friday, 29 September 2006 12:41:49 PM
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The saying:" All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to stand around and do nothing..." or words to that effect.

Part way through as I am, a Bachelor of Laws, it astounds me to hear the support for 'inaction' on issues that have just as much significance today as did the Vietnam War in the late '60's.

I'm also a proud ex serving member of the ADF, single working dad, volunteer, etc etc. I find time for issues that matter, but don't necessarily have the time to organise rallies, marches or whatever.
Student politics have kept me in touch with the topical issues of recent years. But like some posters, I to am enjoying the few extra dollars I am not compelled to pay for Union Fees.

Too many of us today have a 'not in my back yard' mentality. How to get balance since compulsory student union fees were scrapped? The various clubs and societies on campus may need to be more proactive and get the students within their relative disciplines involved and into the 'politics'. The club/society costs per semester are usually much lower also.

The brokers are depending on that inaction to get their 'mandates'. Any breaking down of dissent can only mean to them - approval by default.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Sunday, 1 October 2006 12:00:52 AM
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I wonder how things would have turned out had the Democrats stuck to their mantra of 'Keeping the bastards honest'
Posted by aspro, Wednesday, 4 October 2006 12:01:04 AM
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In the 60s/70s curricula were less modualarised and the courses harder and more intensive. Less dependency on a textbook and less emphasis on being "worked through" a programme. Authority was challanged and the students progressive, not conservative. The whole mix was different, back then, stimulating activism and civic mindedness. In those by-gone days, even the graffetti on the back of the toilet door was more erudite.
Posted by Oliver, Saturday, 7 October 2006 3:29:09 PM
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Like many unions, the National Union of students did not serve it membership very well at all over recent decades and finally paid for that arrogance.

It had lost the confidence of its constituency long before the neo-conservatives bayoneted it.

Students needed representation on campus in their interests, not for the seflish purposes of lesbains, radical feminists, Marxists or whatever.

Sure, students' unions could get involved in broader issues but not at the expense of issues local to the university, mundane as many of those issues might have been.

Similarly the government found it easy to disrupt and largely destroy unionism in the federal public service, but again only because those unions had stuffed around for decades running plebicites on plebicites on abortion and similar issues.

Student unions may remember the heady days of Vietnam demonstrations, however the peaceful effectiveness of those protests was always at risk where the ratbag element of the Left was involved.

Negus is right in saying that students should be involved in politics but he is wrong if he thinks that other students should pay for it.

As regards universities and university services, these days students are more likely to vote with their feet.
Posted by Cornflower, Sunday, 8 October 2006 4:25:31 PM
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As a current Uni student myself, I spent my first year being completely oblivious to the arena of student politics. I see value in the argument naming a lack of unifying causes as a major contributing factor to this common situation; it is hard to unite over grey areas.

From my experience, I feel the student union (in Adelaide, at least) could make itself much more accessible. Most people arrive at Uni with very little historical and political knowledge.

Rather than become frusterated at this "ignorance", as is the natural response, student activists need to respond to this situation creatively to stimulate interest. A globalising world makes assembly of ragamuffin young adults complicated -- not impossible. Student politics can be resuscitated.
Posted by Young Upstart, Thursday, 21 December 2006 1:49:50 AM
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