keith

Israel was not the only country that refused to accept Hamas. The Liberal democracies all over Europe did the same. Why? Because Hamas refused to accept Israel as a country. Of course Israel is a liberal democracy. It has freedom of the press, freedom of religion, every adult has an equal vote and the separation of powers. A proper Jury system and no religious freaks allowed to lock up or kill those who don't follow this or that messenger of God. Even the Jewish zealots complain about a law that is for them too liberal.

Compare this to any Muslim country in the entire world. Is it any wonder that the Israelis want to avoid a Muslim majority? Their methods may not be nice but what about their enemies? The UN aid chief had very, very unkind words to say about Hezbollah.

The superficial left likes to ignore all of this. Just be nice and the world will be all love and kisses. Try saying this to the diggers on ANZAC day. But make sure you have Medicare Super Plus before you do. The fact is that Hitlers and religious facists do occur and we unfortunately do not know how to deal with them in any way that does not hurt innocents.

Is Osama Bin Laden a victim of poverty and difficult circumstances? He belongs to one of the very families that caused the problems for the ordinary Arabs. Not Israel which introduced modern farming methods and industry and medicine into the area. It is a fact that the ordinary Arabs in Israel whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze or atheist are better off than their counterparts in other middle eastern lands. No doubt they want more but how do you think they would all fare in a Muslim country? The reality is not encouraging.

Israel: 0
Hezbollah: 0
The Rest of the World: 0
Global Terrorism: 1
A Handful of Oligarchs and the Political Elite Everywhere: 1

There's never going to be peace in that region. I say hurry up already with the alternative fuels so we can finally leave that whole region to its nutters. That's the best WE can hope for. Until we get the black gold off our hands that region is always going be a major pain in the backside, when realistically, it should be as insignificant as the Faroe Islands or Franz Joseph Land. Would anyone give a hoot if there weren't oil vaguely nearby? Should anyone?

Egeh, as one who during the Cold War studied the philosophy of power matching, it does not even need a mini-thesis to explain that the UN is a failed concern because America never ever did want it as a democratic mediator as proven by her 85 uses of the UN veto - mostly her way, incidently. Right now, of course it is only a tool to be manipulated by an even stronger US, her imperialist unipolar global position, making her far more arrogant than was Pax Britannica, and has even been termed by some historians as a modern Pax Romana.

In order to replace a failed UN, political philosophers are now discussing the need for a Bismarckian-style grouping of our nuclear nations into a bipolar arrangement. Rather easy to work out, as with France reluctant to join the US, and possibly thinking about joining Russia and China in a nuclear power balance. Very likely India would join as well.

Such would also make Iran far more happier, and in fact, further sensible arrangements might allow Iran to go atomic in order to match Israel, which at present with her nuclear arsenal, not only has the Islamic Middle East over a barrel, but also the rest of the pro-Islamic world.

'Israel was not the only country that refused to accept Hamas. The Liberal democracies all over Europe did the same. Why? Because Hamas refused to accept Israel as a country.'

Not quite correct logic.

The reason most countries refused to accept the Hamas led Government was because those countries claimed Hamas refused to renounce the violent overthrow of Israel.

Now of course had anyone bothered to read the Hamas Election Policy as presented to the Palestinian voters they'd acknowledge Hamas had indeed pledged not to attempt the violent overthrow Israel.

I don't recall any of the European Union countries saying they wouldn't accept the Hamas Government. I do recall the US and Israel doing just that and on the basis of their erroneous claim.

Liberal democracies do not illegally attempt to steal the land they are occupying. They tend to follow international laws and conventions as best they can.

Israel also tends to follow international laws and conventions as much as it can. It is entitled to defend itself.

When you have neighbouring countries containing hostile unofficial armies which are pledged to destroy you and are not liberal democracies what do you do then?

All liberal domocracies protect themselves from invasion. What the Allies did to Germany was not pretty but they had lived in fear from attacks by fanatics. Israel was in a winning position before they withdrew. They signed the peace treaty precisely because they are a liberal democracy and are susceptible to public opinion both at home and abroad.

You armchair critics of Israel and the US don't put yourselves in their position. What would you do if you you were subject to suicide bombings? 9/11 was no picnic either. And what about Bali and the London and Madrid bombings. It is hard under these conditions for people to sit back and just take it.

Remeber what Iran and Iraq did to each other in their wars. Iran persuaded children to act as human mine detectors. this is well documented. It is also obscene. These are the people behind Hamas. Iran still practices stoning, based on a misinterpretation of the Old Testament. (Jews did not do it in fact Jewish law forbids it).

And why did the illegal ocupation of Lebanon by Syria get less attention than Israel's actions?

Eh, Logic, knocking Iran's history, surely you mustknow that the US and the UK have both been after Iran for a long time. Rather than me tell you all about it, please read a good history book, making sure it's from a university library.

You also will find that the Iranians are not Arabs but descended from the Persian Dynasty. Even the Americans made use of such history, but connecting deliberate lies to a historical truth when they declared that the puppet Shah was descended from the ancient Persian Peacock Throne.

Of course, many of us university students felt like clapping our hands when the Ayotallah took over, and even more when the Ayotallah gave the order to lock up the US embassy before they cleared out.

You will find in a genuine history book how both the US and the Soviets kidded Saddam Hussein to attack Iran in 1982, even supplying him with weaponry, including chemical weaponry - Donald Rumsfeld handling much of the arranging.

Now with the backing of the doubtful doctrine called regime change, the US helped by us Aussies have been five years attempting to Dyarky Democratise Iraq, meaning puppet rule, with the whole shebang run from the White House.

Both Iran and Iraq are very valuable countries, Logic, Iran much more, because it has the highest quality fuel oil in the world. Also strategically, the ex-oil executives and Zionist neo-cons in the White House if the US controlled both Iran and Iraq, not only in oil, us dumb Western followers will probably all feel so proud we'd want the US to stay there forever.

With a code-name like Logic, mate, it seems you need to do much more logical thinking.