Tony Kevin,

If it makes you feel good Tony, apologise for me as much as you wish. It won’t make a jot of difference; but, if it helps you feel like a big man, be my guest. The other targets of your attempt at being a hairy chest, helping the little woman, are probably as interested in your nonsense as I am. And, like me again, I don’t think they feel that they have any reason to apologise to Ms. Tay. She said what she thinks. We said what we think. For an ex-diplomat, you seem to have trouble with freedom of speech and democracy, Tony.

It is noted that you have a personal connection with Ms. Tay. Perhaps you should start having intercourse with people with whom you do not agree – if only just to test your smug theory that you are right, and we are wrong. As a fairly ordinary type of bloke, I have mixed with all types of people, and I know that not everyone agrees with what I think. You should try broadening your list of acquaintances. It will be quite a shock for you.

But of course, Tony, it will never happen. You don't seem able to direct your criticism directly at your target - merely talking across the sujbect of your disdain to someone else, as though the bad guy doesn't exist. You have all hallmarks of a person who has never left, and never will leave, his own dunghill.

If there has been a large impact from the likes of Sept 11 and other terrorist acts, it is that public speech has been a little more freed up from the politically correct spiral we were headed down. Since I was a child, most people I know have privately voiced the opinion that there are problems with multiculturalism. But this view wasnt publically acceptable. At least now, those that do believe this have a chance to speak out without being decried as racist pigs. Some might be. But others are genuinely concerned as to how a bunch of people of very different beliefs and values, and some from backgrounds that have racial hatreds of each other stemming back centuries, are able to live along side one another, unless we can get them to agree to a core set of values and beliefs. A true multicultural society would have greeks and macedonians, irish and english, israeli and palestinian living in the same street and getting along well. That's called a pipe dream. Its just not in most human nature to be that tolerant. I dont care what background you are from - there are simply very few people that can live up to that ideal. Thats why multiculturalism doesnt and cant work. I do believe though that it can be made to work in some cases, where the people involved are not too different, and changes are brought about over a long period of time. Again, its basic human nature to resist change and despise those that bring change on us. Immigration has brought a lot to our country, there is no denying that. But we need to be careful about the mix and timing. There should never be an open door to just allow anyone in. Its not about racism or supremism. Its just good cautious policy with an eye to harmony.

Multiculturalism is not about food, music, literature etc. Culture is all about world view, that is, where does the idea of 'the good life' lie.

The Australian political and legal systems reflect the culture from which they sprang, that is, the individual as a a citizen, not a subject, and not a part of some sub grouping. All are to be treated as equal before all aspects of the law, for instance, one person one vote.

However other cultures take a very different world view, that is, that the individual does not exist except as part of a 'cultural' group, and it is that group's perceived well being that is more important than the 'individual'.

At a basic level this can be represented by the idea of arranged marriages. In 'the West' individuals are free, within certain legal limits, to partner with any other individual. In many cultures this idea is abnormal, hence any legal support of true multiculturalism in this country would be in support of arranged marriages, by law.

Multiculturalism, in its deeper sense, also means different laws applying to different people, according to their culture. For instance, tribal law, sharia law, and the like.

Do we really want to see others in our community subject to different laws than we are subject to?

I would go so far as to say that the principles of anti-discrimination and multiculturalism are in direct opposition to each other. Anti-discrimination is all about the individual and their rights, multiculturalism is about group rights, and the rights of cultural groups to include, exclude and treat members of a group differently to the way outsiders are treated. That is why so many exemptions to anti-discrimination laws have been granted to cultural groups.

So either we have a society that is just to all, meaning no multiculturalism, or an unjust society with multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism is against the individual, as it privileges groups, rather than advancing individual rights.

Tony Kevin

I see you include me in a list of people with whom you disagree. However I think you've missed something.

I advocate multiculturalism as stated in the official policy. Is there something wrong in that? Pray tell how that makes me a 'great gatekeeper(s) of Angloceltic Australia'?

I advocate, by reading, at least a little deeper knowledge of the people who founded and defined early Australians? Is there something wrong in that? Pray tell me how that makes me an 'assimilationist xenophobe'?

I advocate celebrating the inclusion of Ms Tay, her family and their histories into our multi-culturalist country. Is there something wrong in that? Pray tell me how that makes me an ignorant bully?

I don't really expect an answer. You've ears but they are not listening. You've read my posts without using a modicum of comprehension. Because I don't appear to measure up to your unstated idea of multiculturalism you abuse me. Your hatefilled diatribe had more invective, namecalling and abuse than any post so far.

Is rational reasonable discussion beyond your ability?

Ms Tay might well be embarassed by your ideas if this is the standard of 'truth and decency' your ideas 'rest on'. Ms Tay's article clearly states her ideas and it resonates she does have a fair grasp of truth and decency. Comparing yours and Ms Tay's reveal a massive chasm in both.

Ah, so the:

" 1. None of you responded to Agnes’ clincher demographic fact: “But what are we being asked to assimilate into? The 2001 census reports that 65 per cent of Australians have non-Australian ancestry. The majority of us have an “ancestry”, a cultural history through our parents which is non-Australian.”

Raises its ugly head again.

This deserves a little examination.

For instance, quoting from Census figures: English was the only language spoken at home by 79.1% This tends to indicate that Australia is not 65% 'non Australian', doesn't it?

More than 90% of people were either born in Australia or in countries with similar cultural backgrounds - ie NZ, Europe, North America.

The idea of 65% of Australians having non Australian ancestry is interesting, because it claims that if an Australian has one parent who is born overseas then this virtually wipes out the idea of the other parent being born here.

But lets say that if even half that figure of 65% have one parent born in Australia and one born outside, then the figure with Australian ancestry must be around 67%.

Lets also consider that perhaps half of those overseas born parents come from 'European' cultures, all of a sudden we have around 83% of people with Australian or European ancestry. Sounds a bit different to 65% having non-Australian ancestry, doesn't it?

In fact, the vast majority of Australians are of basic European ancestry and culture, with similar values different to those of Asia and the Middle East.

Statistics can be used to argue almost anything, as long as they are massaged to support a particular viewpoint.

Multicultureism is about bringing all the people of different Nations who are living in Australia together to share each others experiences/cultures, to paint all Australians with the same British Paint brush, ensures all those with a longing for Anglo Celtic inheritance get what they want. to dominate our culture with Britishishness, we are a multicultural Nation, trying to change things , shows racism is alive and well among the British migrants, remember British migrants took decades to become Australian citizens , they would not give up Old Blighty, and they still have their flag dominating , the Australian Flag.