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The Forum > Article Comments > The values of democracy, mateship and country > Comments

The values of democracy, mateship and country : Comments

By Peter van Vliet, published 15/9/2006

A nation of twenty million people without a dominant ancestry needs an inclusive national story.

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- "In Australia we can take great pride in being world leaders in the democratic project. The continuing rise of democracy is based on the simple, universal and powerful truth that governments should ultimately be accountable to, ruled by and governed for the people."

I agree. Though Costello's successful battle against releasing FOI documents is a step in the wrong direction.

Outside of the media, not many people seem to care. But government secrecy is quite possibly the most important issue we face.

Government accountability is paramount, and ours doesn't rate highly in it's open attitude.

Yeah, I'm pushing a wheelbarrow here. But it's an important one, all too easily overlooked.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 15 September 2006 9:49:31 AM
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In general, a nice piece summing up why it is good to be Australian and live in Australia.

It's a pity about the undemocratic enforcement of the silly and dangerous policy of muliticulturalism, though.
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 15 September 2006 10:03:58 AM
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Pete’s right because at one time we did celebrate democracy, mateship and country.

Where did democracy go? At one time 91% of Australians were against multicultural ideals so what did we get? Multiculturalism. So much for democracy. Mateship. What does that mean these days? Walk down the streets of some suburbs and say “G’day mate” and you’ll be told in a foreign accent to F%^& off, you skip. So much for mateship. Country? Just recently we found about 20,000 proud Australians living in South Lebanon. Yeah, they just love Australia.

Pete need not remind us of multiculturalism. There are 7.2 billion reasons to remember multiculturalism. That’s how many dollars - AUD$7.2 billion - we the taxpayers spend each year on propping it up. That must be a lot of comfort to those on hospital waiting lists.

Yes Pete racism exists in Oz. Both political parties actively promote racism because through migration we have imported many racist cultures so there is little chance of us getting rid of the racist tag. Just what some of these cultures add to our identity remains obscure. Is it uplifting to see females wearing a black tent because they are told to do so? I don’t see a reason to celebrate that type of thing. I totally reject some of the vileness being imported into our country. I don’t see anything edifying about slitting the throat of an animal while facing a certain direction. Believe it or not we were told to reject such cruelty at one time in our ‘national story’ but now we’re told it’s OK. How enriching is cruelty?

There can be no inclusive national story if we have multi anything
Posted by Sage, Friday, 15 September 2006 12:34:40 PM
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"Mateship" is largely a male thing. In everyday contexts males, some more then others, will call other males "mate". Women,irrespective of age or looks, are rarely called "mate" and rarely call other women "mate".
It is no more then ideological propoganda, put largely by the male dominated Oz media that suggests that "mateship" is oh so Oztralian.
In proper English, mating is what males and females do together when they want to do what they do together to make babies.
Aborting the meaning of words is wrong.
Posted by Kathryn Pollard, Friday, 15 September 2006 1:25:18 PM
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Sounds like someone pushing the high immigration charter here. The usual story. People in priveleged positions deciding steer the country in a direction irrespective of what the people want, just to keep a grip on power. Corporations demand multiculturalism not Australians. Australia needs a dominant ancestry and a shared cultural heritage, and that is anglo. Anything else is a willfull attempt by malcontents to maintain control.
Posted by hells angel, Friday, 15 September 2006 2:06:43 PM
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I note with interest 2 things.

1/ Australia is a multicultural, multilayered nation.... (from the author)
2/ The Authors position as Executive Officer of the Ethnic Communities' Council of Victoria.

Now.. the immediate question arises is...WHY do we need an 'ETHNIC' communities council ? why ?

What is the other side of this coin ?

You cannot have an 'ethnic' anything, unless it derives it's meaning from the 'non ethnic'...now who would that be ?

So, in short, the very EXISTENCE of an 'ethnic' this or that, is evidence that there IS another group, a LARGE group of people who do not fall into the category of 'ethnic'.

Does the ethnic council persue goals which are in the interests of the 'ethnic communities' that are against the interests of the "non" ethnic ? (like more lax immigration) If so, why ? Perhaps putting this positively "They persue an agenda which promotes the interests of the Ethnic communities"...now..what would THAT be ?

Is it possible to promote the interests of one segment of the community without compromising the interests of another ?

One of the first points where it is in the 'interests' of ethnic communities to make big gains is in point 1 above.

"Australia is a multi layered society"..... is it ?

What are the proportions of the layers ? Is one layer that which gave the country its fundamental legal and political shape ? You BET it is, and it is symbolized by the Union Jack ! That "layer" might comprise 3 major ethnicities (English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh) with the English alone probably the most mixed (Angles,Saxons,Jutes,Normans)
But they still formed the basic cultural flavor of 'Australia' to which all others have come.

Still, by the time they came here, they were identifiable as an integrated group. So, why suddenly do we have 'ethnic' councils ?

The more I think about this the more disturbing it gets.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 15 September 2006 2:37:11 PM
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Peter writes, 'A nation of twenty million people without a dominant ancestry needs an inclusive national story.'

Peter, we have that story but we rather not talk about it thank you.

You see Peter, we are all refugees here, but we live in denial writing nice essays about democracy and mateship etc etc ....

When we become a nation, and that looks increasingly debatable, it will be in spite of our history, not because of it (Pilger wrote that some time ago and it still holds true).

Our history is written in blood which we refuse to acknowledge. Howard can apologise to veterans and others but not to the Indigenous people against who murder, rape and stealing became the acts of barbarian hordes as they grabbed vast tracts of land that rivaled in size the European countries from which they fled.

Peter, we are all refugees - refugees that now erect steel barriers to stop other refugees fleeing from madmen masquerading as national leaders to enjoy those values of which you write. The world, one day, will demand of Australia justice for what we have done. Democracy, mateship and country might come under some severe testing.
Posted by wayseer, Friday, 15 September 2006 8:34:19 PM
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There's a point at which democracy fails and that's the point at which one etnic group(tribe)having failed to intregate, and having grown large in numbers suddenly demands a sepratist state. Then the suicide bombers(freedom fighters) start their bombings in earnest.

A refusal to marry outside of your tribe is the ultimate racism. Its the old black daddy doesnt want chidren to marry white and white daddy doesnt want children to marry black. You can not hold multr -culturalism up as not racist when it is based on the ultimate racism.
Posted by sharkfin, Friday, 15 September 2006 8:36:24 PM
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We saved the aboriginies from the Japanese who were a lot more cruel and barbaric then we were. They could not have held on to this land with only spears as weapons.
This country was taken at the point of a gun and it is still held at the point of a gun. If we only had a few spears and sticks and shovels here to defend ourselves;there are some very militarised forces to our north who are in desperate need of land and resources who would have been here like yesterday to take the place.

Forget your law courts the army with the biggest weapons are the ones who will be making the laws if they overrun us not the judges.
Posted by sharkfin, Friday, 15 September 2006 8:52:32 PM
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This is all about a hyped up contest to see how far grown men can pee. However no longer little boys they know that this sort of rubbish will feed the emotions of nationalism, feed the headlines, confuse the issues.

But seeing who can pee the furthest is such a manly thing!

As others join the stupidity, new Australia only attributes are found, so different from others. We will minutely dissect the meanings of racism and xenophobia and find others are so.

The values are in various forms those to which people of good will aspire.

The values here played upon are those of difference and fear, to the profit of our leaders.

This diversion taking the heat off the “democratic” decision to invade Iraq , Iran? and the mess we have. Whilst religions spruke their bill boards for members targeting difference not similarity, as our great leaders lie to the electorate, the essence of democracy and play their little egotistical games, claimed such to be of national interest not their own, necessitating even more wealth squandering in pursuit of goals whose enforcement by might is a forgone disaster. But power comes to reside more and more with those who play these games.

Little boys indeed who want the world’s toys and thoughts to be theirs alone.
Each needs to arm itself however contrary to agreed behaviour for with national hype the small voice of the men of good will everywhere is lost in the cataclysm of patriotism.
Posted by untutored mind, Saturday, 16 September 2006 9:06:07 AM
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We were once a British colonial outpost and now we are an American imperial outpost. Where would John Howard's neo-19th century style global statesmanship be without it. Certainly little Johnny knows it too, as seen by the way he agrees with Georgie Boy Bush without daring a word out of place.

Where our true national pride can be found in this, begs the question. But looks like we'ere stuck with it.
Posted by bushbred, Saturday, 16 September 2006 2:04:37 PM
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This is the first time that I have visited this site, first forum that I have read. I normally don't open an account or get involved, but after reading all the posts to Peters discussion I feel I need respond. It ashames me to see that such a large percentage of the responses posted are by such racist, redneck people calling themselves Ozzies. A large amount of us "Ozzies" have at least one parent or "grandparents" who were born overseas. Have you asked your family how they were treated when they arrived on our fair shores? Asked them how they felt when they were made to feel unwelcome?
I know that we Ozzies have ALWAYS been a bit racist but nowhere near the level that we and our pollies like Howard are today.
Posted by badseed, Saturday, 16 September 2006 7:38:32 PM
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Response to David_BOAZ who writes:

"why suddenly do we have 'ethnic' councils? The more I think about this the more disturbing it gets."

As I knew nothing about ethnic councils, but do enjoy discussion with DB, I decided to look at their website. It says:

"Ethnic Communities’ Council of Victoria (ECCV) was established in 1974 as a voluntary community based organisation and is now a broadly based, state-wide, peak advocacy body representing ethnic and multicultural communities in Victoria ... ECCV has been a key player in building Victoria as a successful, harmonious and multicultural community. ECCV advocates and lobbies all levels of government on behalf of multicultural communities in areas like access and equity, aged care services, migration services, discrimination, community harmony, employment, education and training, health and community services, law and justice, and arts and culture. ECCV's role includes supporting, consulting, liaising with and providing information to Victoria’s ethnic communities. ECCV delivers policy projects for key partners in areas like multicultural policy, aged care programs and skilled migration strategies."

I do not find this disturbing. And a non-government association can call itself anything it likes. It's a free country. Passing a law to ban or limit free association is objectionable.

If the British Australian Community (BAC), Royal Society of St George or the Royal Caledonian Society of Melbourne wanted to join the ECCV one doubts it would be a problem? Perhaps they are already members? In fact on the BAC website (http://www.geocities.com/endeavour_uksa/) it says "In modern multicultural Australia, it is okay to take pride in your ethnic heritage. Australians of Anglo-Celtic background have a lot to be proud of ..."

Indeed!
Posted by David Latimer, Saturday, 16 September 2006 7:47:54 PM
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May I add that all immigrants to this country are complicit in past and present suffering of the indigenous peoples. They reaping the benefits of (near) genocide, just like a crime boss who gets others to do the dirty work, and cleans up the profits.

Can I lodge a complaint against those who extend the accusation of racism to those who oppose the stimulation mass immigration. My understanding of racism is in terms of racial segregation and ethnic subordination to white domination. A lot of what we identify with racism actually happended overseas (apartheid, racial segregation in the U.S occured with pre existing minorities) and not in Australia. People seem to link objections to mass immigration with racism, which makes the term quite misleading.
Posted by hells angel, Saturday, 16 September 2006 9:26:37 PM
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The values Peter refers to are seriously misguided.

For starters since when did Australia practice democracy? When did it start? If it did then when did it stop as what we have today is nothing like democracy. In a democratic country you have a choice of elected representatives. Do you call a choice between 2 Party sponsored candidates democracy? I don't.

Do you call a country where the PM makes constant decisions that the public rejects democratic? I don't.

As to mateship, that's another Australian lie. Mateship does exist but it disappears as soon as a male meets a female they are attracted to. Mates are nothing at that time. As they are whenever there is an alternative to hanging out with "the boys".

The mateship Howard refers to constantly is really the culture of covering each other's back sides, nothing to do with honesty or integrity, just back up whatever a "mate" has done regardless of the ethics or morality.

And country? Don't we all know what patriotism is don't we? The last haven of scoundrels. In other words patriotism is simply another political tool to push people into groups they don't really agree with. Wrap yourself in a flag and win an election. Absolute deceit.

The values that do define a country are those that exist within family groups, regardles of background. Those values if held flow through to a higher level in which politicians should reflect what the public want and do. Pity about democracy really isn't it?
Posted by RobbyH, Sunday, 17 September 2006 9:02:11 AM
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A nation of twenty million people without a dominant ancestry needs an inclusive national story?

HARDLY!

What we need is a decent education and skills. Ancestry and an inclusive national story is irrelevant in a world of cutthroat global corporations looking to buy up and inflate all the assets Howard can muster thereby trapping Australians into market led slavery and a legal powerlessness to change that fate.

We need to remove Kong Howard as Prime Minister in November 2007. We need to remove Morris Iemma and Frank Sartor in March 2006. And other politicians whose addiction to greed makes them no longer fit to govern.

These politicians are not clever. They just following a subtle but blunt US led feudalism that is sweeping this planet. Whether we like it or not they have everything to gain from this and we have everything to lose.

Just substitute Australia for 'America' in the following Editorial. Why this country can't afford John Howard will become clearer. Clearer even than falling house prices and rising interest rates.

Killing Off the American Future September 16, 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/16/opinion/16sat3.html?ex=1158552000&en=9a1fec531226d57b&ei=5087%0A

America’s domination of the global information economy did not come about by accident. It flowed directly from policies that allowed the largest generation in the nation’s history broad access to a first-rate college education regardless of ability to pay. By subsidizing public universities to keep tuition low, and providing federal tuition aid to poor and working-class students, this country vaulted tens of millions of people into the middle class while building the best-educated work force in the world.

Unless America renews its commitment to the higher education policies that made the country great, we could soon find ourselves at the mercy of an increasingly competitive global economy. And if we let ourselves hit bottom, it could take generations for us to dig ourselves out.

Continued ...
Posted by KAEP, Sunday, 17 September 2006 1:53:31 PM
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Continuing ...

John Howard:

We love your face and we love your erudite style

But you cost us so much we don't want you back for 'while.

Morris Iemma and Frank Sartor:

They appear frenetically interested in finegling Botany Bay foreshore and Cook Cove, Cook's River Foreshore out of Public hands and into a corrupt Euro/Mafia style floating Casino complex. Their interest is in not EDUCATING NSW citizens amid the current stark skills crisis. No, because educated people do NOT make bigger dupes and better gamblers.

A March 2007 reelection of NSW Labor will spell the end of decency in this once great state. All the social problems now safely swept under Public Service carpets in preparation for the election are busting to get out and make their share of the profits in Dodge City, Sydney NSW.

Australia: LOWER THEIR SIGHTS TO INCREASE OUR CHANCES.
Posted by KAEP, Sunday, 17 September 2006 1:55:13 PM
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Dear KAEP...you have some good points. I wish I had greater economic knowledge so I could speak with more authority on that area, but alas, I just kick 'reasonable punts' at the goals usually.
I know one thing though, we are truly in dire straits in many areas where a dose of Labor 'social service' injected into the Coalition 'Fiscal responsibility' would do more good than harm.

Response to David L:

On the "British Australian Community", and speaking from the 2nd stanza of "My Country" by Dorothea McKella, I have to say they are as 'racist' as Peters Ethnic mob, and for the same reasons. Just that they have 'stiffer' upper lips :)
If they stand for the kind of interests advanced by the British in New Zealand, particularly by "One of the best governors of the British Empire" aged 35.. a man named Grey, who made all the 'correct' official signals, but, being a military man as well as an administrative, he subtly tightened deadlines, and pressured the Ngapuhi Maoris who apprently used sophisticated 'Trench Warfare' successfully against the Poms, to out manourver them for a final decisive showdown. (The treaty of Waitangi was a deceitful document, with key words differnt in the Maori and English version).
They never did 'win'. Everyone just stopped fighting. The Maori still have their dignity, and my 6'4" son in law has a big bold tatoo on his forearm 'Ngapuhi' :) I'm proud of their achievement against the English, but not of their massacre of other Maori.

Pride in ethnicity always has racist overtones. Ethno centric lobby groups, are racist by nature. (even combined ones)
P.S. Look very closely at the Ethnic Council's goals and you will see 'racism' in them .
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 17 September 2006 2:15:07 PM
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When I read the article, I thought ,'Wow!This is great!' then as I continued to read the posts,it got less and less great and started to sound a bit like a commercial.
Australia's best days were before the politically correct mongrels took reign, before "multi culture" became a fad,and long before people antagonistic to OUR culture,traditions and beliefs were let into this once peaceful ,law abiding country.
The values of democracy, mateship and country were what we had, I doubt that 'we will see their like again'.
Posted by mickijo, Sunday, 17 September 2006 3:27:08 PM
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Knocking multiculturalism and taking advantage of every opportunity to howl at a minority group IS political correctness now.

It is now politically correct to focus on the differences between people, kick a man while he's down and sink the boot into the underdog.

It is also politically correct to be as paranoid as possible at all times, alert and alarmed
Posted by chainsmoker, Sunday, 17 September 2006 4:31:32 PM
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mickijo

Thoughtful post. Thanks mate!

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Sunday, 17 September 2006 6:32:45 PM
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It is interesting that we forget that "democracy" is a Greek concept that made life really terrific for the citizens of Athens. We are thus all working within a 'foreign' framework.

Alas the concept of 'Democracy" flourished in a society that was really made possible by the slave labour of all of those who were NOT citizens.

One COULD be tempted to suggest that the recent hasty rush towards new 'democratic values' by the Howard government - (exemplified in its IR legislation, its Immigration Policies, and the new citizenship proposals)is merely a return to the "good old days" in Athens.

Of course there is one small down side to this scenario which is exemplified by a certain revolt at the Eureka Stockade in Australia(oops another Greek word meaning "I have found it")
Posted by garpet1, Sunday, 17 September 2006 6:35:51 PM
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Some find it “arrogant” to conflate “Australian values” with those values most of us consider in some sense “universal”. But that view, I think, fails to make the significant distinction between “customs” and “ethics”.

Customs are superficial cultural practices, like ritual, food, song, and therefore by necessity are historical, social, and political. When we think of “multiculturalism” we tend always to focus on what is unique and original, adopting a postmodern, superficial sense of "diversity" as "custom", bypassing the principle of it as open "criticism".

Ethics has to do with principles of conduct, with how we “relate” to one another, not with “what” or “who” we are. When we say something is “good” or “bad”, if we are honest to ourselves we can only mean this in a universal sense. This is because we are concerned more with what we all have in common, what some might base “human rights" on.

For us, it is "customary" to be "fair", such that "fairness,” along with “mateship”, have become part of the “what” or the “who” of how we think of ourselves “culturally”. Yet these are universal ethical principles!

To all the cringing nihilists I say an "Austraayyan" is “relation”, not a “thing”. When we think of “who” we are, we primarily think of how we “relate to others”, e.g. fairness, tolerance, democratic, and not whether we have anything superficial to grasp onto, and which might distinguish us from others, what makes us superficially unique and original. That is, an "Austraayyan" truly has SUBSTANCE!

Those who have over the years mocked “Aussies” as having “no identity,” as being “blank,” have only unwittingly proven that we are a people who can HANDLE NIHILISM in a positive sense, rather than flee from the abyss. We don’t hold onto tradition for the sake of it, like a non-Anglo bigot does. We are BRAVE in the face of the abyss! We can confront the fact that we are “evolving”, and thus move away from “custom” and toward ETHICALITY itself.
Posted by abyss, Sunday, 17 September 2006 9:25:35 PM
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Dear Abyss and Garpet

You guys may benefit from mentally placing yourselves in a differnt culture for a while and exploring a particular scenario.
Lets take one quite different from Australias.. like... Nepal

Now.. you wear Aussie/Western clothes, (lets say you are a mixed gender group) and you speak english all the time, and you begin to seek permission to build a 'cultural centre' or.. an 'Expat Community Centre'.....

It so happens that being Australian is in fact a 'Political/Religious/Social package.' You cannot be truly 'Australian' unless you are able to function with all the legal, social and cultural cues which are part of being 'Australian'.
Your 'Australian-ness' also requires a degree of political power, because being 'Australian' is in fact a calling from God who has informed you that 'the world and all that is in it, belongs to God and his Australians'.

After a while, you notice some unexpected resentment manifesting from the local population. You read in the local 'forum' expressions of frustration at the increasing influence of 'Australians'. Eventually, your attempts to gain political office in this foreign city are met with violent opposition, the burning of your cultural centre, attacks on Australians......you can't understand this, after all, being Australian is such a natural thing.... why are the locals being so 'intolerant' and 'racist' ?

why ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 18 September 2006 8:12:38 AM
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Well only the bank manager has called me "Maaate" as he refused me a home loan.

But if Australia wants to continue to be a safe and happy place for its citzens to live in then we had better start talking about our similarities rather than our differences. While we talk about our differences we build up a culture of hate and spend our efforts hating our neighbours. When we explore our similiarites we can start to provide services that we all need to survive and live comfortably.

I think the author is silly to say that aborigines migrated here from somewhere else - about 40,000 years ago. If we look at western Europe over the last 2000 years there were migrations of celts, jutes, saxons, vikings etc. Taking searching for similarities too far!

BD asks why ethnic groups need their own aged care facilities. Clearly BD is a native English speaker with limited experience of elderly people and their needs.
Posted by billie, Monday, 18 September 2006 9:48:05 AM
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Abyss, your argument doesn't work. If our "substance" as Australians is formed from holding universal ethical principals, then there is no reason for "Australianness" to be any different from "Americanness" or "Britishness" or "Danishness".

In other words, if your definition of what gives substance to being an Australian is a capacity to "handle nihilism in a positive sense", then there are individuals living in New York or London who are more "Australian" than I am - given that I don't even believe that there is an abyss.

A truly distinct national character is formed from a combination of people and place. I doubt if this character can really be reduced to a set of values or principles, as it's more in the nature of subtle, living entity.
Posted by Mark Richardson, Monday, 18 September 2006 10:48:30 AM
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D Boaz and M Richardson,

Of course all human beings are culturally embedded and therefore dependent on cultural cues. I should have noted that what matters is the ORDER of custom and ethics, since my point is that we ought not live from out of that, such that that becomes the measure and law, but rather from out of what makes that possible in the first place, our ethicality, which goes more to our common roots (this is why Hobbes saw the need for separation of church and state, for the former is really only a nihilistic reaction to the alienating implications of the latter).

That way, all “custom” betrays its transience, its being open to debate, and thus a potentiality for alienation, and this on the grounds of the more primordial ethicality that lies at the root of all humanity (e.g. that we can communicate, and the ethical implications of this), not just a particular culture.

Western cultures are closer to living from out of the universal rather than the particular, and that is why we transform by the decade, and thus “appear” to “have no culture”. But the West’s diversity is profound! Sure, we always hear of how “superficial” Westerners are, but I find that Capitalism has only better REGULATED what is elsewhere left uncheck, such as the organ market in China. And those who want to kill cartoonists have the most superficial sense of identity known!

DB: “why?” Because we threaten the existence of foundational grounds! I could “give reasons” for why I ought to be allowed to be who I am, not just regurgitate some “tradition” I ought adhere to, and base my “right” solely on some superficial notion of “multiculturalism”! Indeed, I could justify why others ought to be like me! The “when in Rome …” argument is weak.

MR: I agree with the implications you draw out of my comments, because Americans, British, Europeans, all share in the Enlightenment, the historical moment when “criticism” became institutionalised.
Posted by abyss, Monday, 18 September 2006 2:15:32 PM
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David,

Thanks for the kind words. I believe the current Australian-ness issue is one more of Howard's divide and conquer tactics. BEWARE lest he succeeds.

I think it is clear that the fate of democracy in Australia depends on preventing ANY one individual the time in office to become corrupt. !0 years in office is too long. 8 Year maximum electoral incumbency was wisely chosen by American founding fathers and we should take note of their forethought in our still very much evolving democratic system.

Unfortunately, apathy, hubris and fool's gold in the form of property investments have left this nation with a two party, one value ethos. There is NOT much practical difference between Labor and Liberal as you infer. But they ARE the only real choices.

The difference is no longer socio-economic issues. We are governed by corporation-greed-by-proxy in any case. Therefore all we can do is the electoral equivalent of the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique of Kill Bill fame. I call it the Five Point Palm Exploding Political Career Technique: where unresponsive leaders like Howard, Iemma and Sartor are voted out and their party is voted out every other term until they realise that in order to come in from the political wilderness they must SERVE HARDER, especially in areas of education and population decentralisation. Otherwise we see them arrogantly smile, turn, take 5 steps and drop dead politically.

The recent blame game about running out of water is a prime example. The culprit is the Federal government's immigration funnelling into areas like SYDSEQ where Macbank and Co have easy access to big markets and profits. These companies have no responsibility for the social damage and infrastructure shortages they cause and have the gaul to use up Howard's electoral charisma to blame us for the water shortages their IMMIGRANT future-markets will cause. This is pure political INCEST. THE answer is to use free speech to expose it and votes to rotate politicians until its eradicated.

Since we are governed by corporations and the reserve Bank, it makes little difference to economic consequences for Australia
Posted by KAEP, Monday, 18 September 2006 2:38:27 PM
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If you were blind and could not see
How would you know what colour I be
This goes for both others and me
So let's look for good in those we meet
Don't ask the Gods to fight in your street

4freedom
Posted by 4freedom, Monday, 18 September 2006 4:44:35 PM
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Response to David BOAZ:

I do not know much about the British Australian Community, but the existance of ethno centric lobby groups is not racist.

You've said, "pride in ethnicity always has racist overtones." I don't think thats right. To take the reverse example, if I lived overseas, I'd still be proud of being Australian and would be interested in having a social with other Australians from time to time. That would not make me a racist. I'd also be interested in ensuring that as a migrant that I was subject to no unnecessary disadvantage. Were is the racism in that?
Posted by David Latimer, Monday, 18 September 2006 6:16:14 PM
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Kaep...unfortunately for the time being the incumbent Libs have an 'antidote' to the Exploding Palm thingy. They call it "Senate Majority". Stifles even the most potent of elixirs of life, love, careers - whatever.

Democracy, like truth in politics, apparently went overboard in 1788. I heard rumour though that one of the Cousteau team is doing a dive off Mrs Macquaries Chair in Sydney Harbour, to see if its remains are still there and able to be salvaged. Another unsubstantiated bit of gossip alluded to its ghost turning up in 1901 at the Federation bash in Centennial Park. For free drinks, a sausage sandwich and bit of nostalgia no doubt.

Since then all reports are that it has gone through many and varied transformations, evolving into what we have currently.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Thursday, 28 September 2006 8:15:52 PM
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