Every building in the world is a water catchment for rainwater tanks. Australia is probably representative of the world whereby 3 per cent of households in Australia’s capital cities have rainwater tanks (enHealth Council, 2004).

Greg Cameron

Is this the everlasting belief in the technical fix? Granted it has served a large proportion of mankind well but there are limits. Yes apart from genetic engineering water use efficiency, robbing some part of the environment for human use seems fine except as you note it deprives a other parts. How much of the rest of nature do we need to sustain our increasing population? Recycle, produce O2 trap CO2 etc.
We are a plague species whose numbers will collapse rather unkindly as what, water, soil, energy etc decline? And insects increase?
The immediate solution will be of course to fight naming naturally all others terrorist and thus beyond any necessity for understanding or compassion, enjoying unrestrained resource use and moral high ground.
Mind you we are already becoming well trained in such mindsets.
Yet to reduce population means tackling questions which only China and India seem to have addressed. The question of limitation is explosive yet the only long term solution. Our treasurer obviously believing in the solution of economic problems sees a population increase for Australia as desirable for the support of the increasing number of elderly.
Yet Australia has real limits of land suitable to agriculture, and declining with Stalinization loss of structure and erosion, of water though to decline with global warming to name a couple and not forgetting our mineral industry can support us for only so long and using Uranium or trapping CO2 adds yet another problem, containment.
So the price of not just water but food, energy and the cost of protection will also rise.
Again this may be limited nationally by ’gated’ deprived communities with death squad control e.g. Sao Paula, the few lasting a bit longer in unsustainable rich comfort

Many countries are coming to terms with the fact the free ride on building and farming human populations for corporate profiteers has run out. Water is available at the usual free rate, but only if sensible goverments halt unsustainable population growth and corporate profiteering in large cities and spread it evenly across the whole nation.

As new immigrant arrivals only want to live in the big cities they won't want to come here and their absence will quickly solve any water shortage problems.

Its just tough luck for a few profiteers and a good job and justice for the general public.

Big corporations like Telstra and others are not God's gift to Australia. If we had a Federal government that encouraged competitiveness in industry instead of monopolies, this whole water issue would not even be on our radar. Australian corporations are out of control and the sooner we enact legislation to make their CEOs accountable to the Public, as is the case withe any other body that governs our lives in this country, the better off we will all be.

And this whole water debate should sound alarm bells to this nation about impending media MONOPOLY legislation. Monopolies already extend well into the internet safety valve with acquisitions of major search engines and meeting sites and if corporations get the Press we are all going to be easily led to the corporate shearing sheds and abbatoirs.

Lucky Country? Only if you stand and be counted.

Correct Greg also...but of course, rainwater can-and-probably-will-be-taxed-in-the-future by more of the same short-sighted logic that’s displayed in this article...no doubt the "pollies" are enthralled!

Dr, check Sunwater Corporation's charges for water to Queensland farmers...they charge exorbitant water infrastructure charges for dams, channels, etc. to those farmers - i.e., the farmers BUY their allocation of water from the dams, with NO guarantee they’ll be provided with that water for their crops or stock anyway. They also pay drainage charges/ha (whether-they-need-it-or-not) and any water captured is re-sold to the farmers.

Farmers-are-then-charged-for-the-allocated-water-also, whether-they-use-it-or-not...i.e., if the water is not available (drought, town supply gets precedence, mines do too, etc.) then the farmer will have to watch his crops die and still pay for the water...check with families of farmers in Mackay who walked off farms and/or suicided because of disputes or inability to pay because their crops failed as a result.

Additionally, Burdekin River Irrigation farmers pay over $40/megalitre and pretty well buy all the water for irrigation in most years...dry place.

Other areas, like Mackay, where it’s wetter…pay considerably more for their water when it’s in short supply as costs rise accordingly.

The Dr’s catchcry…farmers should pay more for water, begs the questions, "Are you prepared to pay extra for the food they produce, Dr? ...and how many others without your salary package can feed their families, given that scenario?" Well said KAEP...HK and other places with massive discrepancies between rich-and-poor are similar!

In fact, farmers are price-takers and generally receive far less than the real value of their product already.

Burdekin cane farmers, for example, sell all of their sugar on the export market and so offset the balance-of-payments in Australia's favour Dr. Other than crucifying farmers with glib half-truths, what benefits will your article really provide for Australia's immediate or long-term future?

Perhaps you’re suggesting that we import all our food...how stupid would that be considering the defence of our country alone?

Then there’s the level of food contaminants which are accepted in other countries, like China, which our own food standards wouldn’t allow...acceptable in imports, it seems.

Tbc…

Cont...

Dr, why do some academics choose to perpetrate the lie that water gets used up?...water needs to be used wisely...no-one should dispute that, but the argument or inference that it will get used up is simply untrue.

Water is provided by God and nature (not SUNWATER) and when used will pass one-way-or-another back to the earth and be refreshed, renewed...cleaned by mother earth and either return again as rain, in rivers, bores, etc. Provided that dangerous contaminants are removed from the water before it is released into the soil there IS no problem with waste from homes, factories or farms...that can't be resolved. Water doesn't run out...it’s simply contained/held somewhere else.

If harvested and re-used sensibly, there’s no need for the environment, or farmers to suffer as both do presently.

Interestingly, the Burdekin River used to run dry (pre-dam) in many years...ask any old Burdekinite...now the 'experts' insist that a certain amount of water has to be released from the dam so that river flows are maintained constantly. So, it seems nature ‘benefits’ from these dams too...

The sad reality is that, save the Hinze Dam and the Burdekin Dam and a few less notable others, dams are notoriously known to be built in the wrong place...experts do get things wrong and we all pay...again-and-again-and-again.

The moral of the story...check the facts for yourselves...you pay in the end, the experts have been well paid to provide information but no-one will remember who messed up when the final result isn't a success. You'll still pay and all the ‘experts’ will have been well paid.

Too bad you’ll have no food…perhaps the Indonesians will share? Impossible…! Food aid from the UN? Hmmm…unlikely…too many in line ahead of us…and fewer able to pay. Perhaps you should appreciate those Aussie farmers while you have them and pay them accordingly…and realistically Dr! Don’t make Australia learn the hard way, like Europe did in war time…WW3 is still a possibility…the old scouts motto, “Be Prepared” is as pertinent today as it ever was.

The Queensland Labor Government led by Peter Beattie likes to claim that he can make Queensland drought proof.

Now, I don't know if he has some secret rain making ritual or has watched the movie that says, "If you build it, they will come"...Peter Beattie possibly thinking that building dams will bring the rain.

Australian's need to get off their fat backsides and take control of this and every other issue. Stop handing off our day to day lives for government to control and take the controls back. Demand better, put better solutions into action or drag them out of their government palace by their short and curlies.

Until the Australian's learn that we HAVE to take control of this, nothing is going to happen but sniping politicians and self interest groups kicking this around like a football.

Well said Meg1

It seems the biggest complainers come from those who are protected from the world market by many govt regulations, unlike the sugar industry which has to take world market price for their income.

If things were all fair, all Australians would be fully exposed to the world market, or all equally protected.

You only have to look at the history of oil prices verse oil.
Oil was more expensive in the past than now relative to wages.
http://www.itp.net/business/features/details.php?id=4921&category=

Agriculture commodities prices don’t get regulated up like urban domestic prices.
Yet who is doing all the winging?

We just an interest rate rise to suck up all the excess wealth in the urban areas, as shown by the housing boom.
We then have the fed govt giving a billion plus stimulus to the wage earner in the urban area, to buy non taxed energy for their cars.
This must mean we will have to have anther interest rate rise soon.

.

Thanks dunart...

'It seems the biggest complainers come from those who are protected from the world market by many govt regulations, unlike the sugar industry which has to take world market price for their income.'

Never a truer word spoken...considering the sugar industry and other rural and manufacturing industries were supposed to be 'deregulated' under National (destroyer-of) Competition policy, it is interesting that instead, both sides of politics has instead supported heavier regulating of all of these industries in favour of the Corporate sector...there's those big bucks for election donations to consider,of course and he who pays the piper...calls the tune (or sets the policy, as the case may be.)

The hardest thing to swallow is why so many of the industry-based groups, like CANEGROWERS ORGANISATION and such groups supported the stripping of their members rights and all bargaining power...no wonder farmers are suiciding at the highest rate in this country's history. Farmers should link the salary packages of those industry-posers to the world price of their comodities...you'd see a lot better representation then...maybe farmers might make their 10pc return on investment...pigs might fly too, I guess.

That 'level playing field' we've all been promised for decades, makes both Federal and State governments around this country look like the fiscal fools they are...since we're the ONLY ones left playing the game...other countries recognise they can't expect their farmers, manufacturers and wage earners to pay the price for the rest of the world's subsidies and compete in an increasingly corrupt world market.

As you say, 'If things were all fair, all Australians would be fully exposed to the world market, or all equally protected.'

Your weblink re: oil and prices, etc. made interesting reading...of course the oil companies donate to the major parties so we'll all grow old waiting for the Federal government to encourage alternatives to oil and make the oil bullies share 'their' market with cheaper and more environmentally friendly alternatives...unless the oil companies can get their cut from that too...e.g., gas? What a coincidence...they just did.

tbc...

Cont...

'This must mean we will have to have anther interest rate rise soon.'

I'll take bets on the next interest rate rise before Christmas...unless JH calls an early election...you can bet there will be another .25pc before Christmas. Then the possibility of a drop before the Federal Election to sweeten us all up that they know what they're doing.

Ooops, does anyone really believe the Reserve Bank are entirely 'independent' of influence from the government or business interests...take a look at the make-up of the board...who's kidding who? We will not see interest rates lower than the US as we would then see an exodus of US and other foreign investment capital withdrawn from Australia and invested in the US resulting in a collapse in our economy - the recession we're borrowing to avoid...so we will continue to pay higher interest and live in our fool's paradise.

Then there's the water...if they can continue to con---vince us that we have to drink our own #^*#\*! because the water is running out? then they can sell us magic 'Franklins' dearer than the price of oil...and cash in on that too...endless election funding in all this.

Hmmm...surely this is not making us a little cynical about our pollies and some of the academics who are playing the game to stay employed or re-employed on the next round of 6 month contracts?

this is a bit of thread, but will appear in soon in press.
e-mail me at gavis7@hotmail.com meg and we can discuss more

The govt’s fuel package has to be the most absurd policy I have ever read about coming from a govt. The bit that really bites is that the Labour and Greens say it is not enough!

This policy is appeasing the urban electorate, without regard to the future. A quick search will find that oil prices have been equal to and even higher in the past relative to wages.

Growth in china and India will see an explosion in the world’s car fleet as they race to catch up to the unsustainable lifestyle of the 1st world.

What the govt has done is give a massive capital subsidy for people to use a cheaper non renewable un-taxed energy source (gas).
The bulk of this will go to the higher income, big car owners in the urban areas, people who could readily afford to change over to gas. This will increase their disposable income, the reason for the recent interest rate rises.

The regional areas, with a higher % of business vehicles, and less outlets for gas will be far less inclined to make the change as for a start they will not get the subsidy on any vehicle that has a business component.

With greatly increasing incomes in the urban areas( as demonstrated by the housing boom), and declining incomes in the regional areas, due to regulated declining terms of trade combined and this years drought, we have a govt regulating wealth to those causing the economy problems.

Farm gate agriculture commodity prices; have not changed much over the last 35 years.
My research show that the increase for a grain grower is in excess of 20 times over the same period.

this billion $ handout, will not go to those most in need it seems, but to buy votes from those least in need, with absurd situation of labour and greens saying they should get more!

The fledgling re-newable ethanal and bio-diesel industry gets nothing.

Good article. Water prices must be set by the market or shortages, wastage and inadequate investment will continue. Food price rises are likely part of the solution, not the problem.

cont

The fledgling re-newable ethanal and bio-diesel industry gets nothing.

They are going to subsidize the retail outlet to sell ethanol, very much an urban domain again for the financial windfall.

The multi national gas industry will continue to receive massive tax relief for years to come yet.

I say directing the windfall to renewable energy, via permanent tax relief, with only a road user component equal to that spent on roads being applied after a 10 year window to help the industry get established would achieve far better outcomes long term.
.

We have just had an interest rate increase to suck up some of the booming urban economy’s wealth. We now have a policy from govt, with opposition party’s support to hand it all back plus some. Most will end up in the pockets of those that are managing the best, the private big car users of energy.

What this means is that the message will be delayed that we are entering a future of higher relative energy costs, particularly for liquid energy users.
The longer we leave it, the harder it will be to re-adjust in the future, as nothing is more certain than the impending demand exceeding supply.

We also have the Absurd policy where electric “scooters and cars” are still not legal in Australia. My web surfing tells me that they are about twice as efficient as petrol cars in the use of energy, as well as suiting most (90% plus) car trips very well in the urban areas. This is without the option of being able to use wind energy as the energy source.

The Green’s statements to date show that their “Greenness” has disappeared (did they ever have it?) as one would have thought they would have been very strong on reducing our reliance on non-renewable energy in favour of the many renewable alternatives.

Disputur, that’s if the farmers actually receive the increases to cover their increased costs…not with present NCP and government/corporate collaboration they won’t…so who will be left to feed you? Check out how inefficient the corporates are with food-production and water usage…not very efficient or environmentally-friendly at all!

Dunart…the ‘greens’ need to re-dye their colours…and we should be looking harder at all of the parties and groups who talk-the-talk but don’t walk-the-walk…some are of the opinion that obsessively attacking farmers equates to the only environmental credentials they need…short-sightedness that also suggests they think milk originates from the drink-machine at Coles.

The "greens" are becoming increasingly more dependent on the corporate $'s for funding their campaigns too...enough said.

Interesting that in Great Britain the largest percentage of retail holding is 16pc…in Australia under National (destruction of Australian) Competition Policy, Coles and Woolworths hold well over 80% of the market share…any wonder Walmart and other transnational retailers want a piece of that action…

KAEP has put it well…

‘And this whole water debate should sound alarm bells to this nation about impending media MONOPOLY legislation. Monopolies already extend well into the internet safety valve with acquisitions of major search engines and meeting sites and if corporations get the Press we are all going to be easily led to the corporate shearing sheds and abbatoirs.

Lucky Country? Only if you stand and be counted.’

I don’t believe we can blame NCP and government/corporate collaboration as the problem.

The real problem is that policies such as “NCP and government/corporate collaboration” are selectivity applied due to urban pressure to maintain a very high wage growth in the urban areas, regardless of the ability on the world, country or agriculture to sustain it.
My link in a post above demonstrates what happens when you get one sided govt intervention in the market place. This is that wage’s in relation to the oil price is better today then it was in the 79 to 81 period.
I have not done the figures for water, but I would be surprised if it cost less of a % of AWE to buy water today than it has in the past.
This is all as a result of govt regulation in favour of our urban areas.

May be if we had “REAL FREE TRADE” for the urban incomes like we have in the regional sector incomes, we would have quite different outcomes now.
This would be that water and oil are becoming increasingly scarce, as the relation ship between water/oil and AWE changes to give the message that we need to reduce consumption.

These are methods already in use in the regional sector, and they work well.
Applying this policy only to the income side and not the expenses side is a major regional problem.

The proof is in the fact that if we adopted “REAL” free trade tomorrow, regional Australia would hardly notice any difference in their income, but the urban areas would suffer extremely as their regulated world was taken away.

How can it be fair that a sector of the economy has to derive an income from selling to the much lower paid factory workers of the world, yet have many restrictions, both natural and artificial placed on their personal and business expenses?

Apply the “demand/supply” market to water (and the rest of the economy) and the shortage will be looked at in a totally different light.

The act of discrimination is alive and well in Australia.

Thanks for the HSC Economics heads up Dunnart.

When the Government has its back to the wall they will always bring out the WAGE issue to scare the bejesus out of electors.

Sorry it hasn't worked.

The main jobs in Urban areas are service jobs. Free Trade will not affect these jobs or wages while our minerals exports are booming. Further, Kim Beasly noted last week that Howard had turned his back on manufacturing in Australia and this is largely correct.

And anyway, the Federal government's use of the immigration tool to depolarise electorates in big cities also provides greater cometition and lowering of real wages in all urban areas, particularly Sydney by a ratio around 4:1 to the rest of Australia. IOW Howard has shot himself in the foot with wages.

4797

Dunart, re: wages v’s oil price…big difference in the same calculation of agricultural commodities in relation to almost every input cost factor they have,including fuel.

Australia’s reality is that we have the smallest manufacturing sector in the developed world, save places like Greece…no,I’m not joking. That’s compliments of National (destruction-of-all-things-Australian) Competition Policy…we are the only fools left on that Free Trade – Level-Playing-Field…everyone else saw what we did to our farmers, manufacturers, small businesses, etc. and they didn’t want to play…so their subsidies continue while our fellow Australians (mostly in rural and regional Australia) suffer irreparable damage as a result.

Manufacturing industries like Austoft…designers and builders of world-famous cane-harvesters, etc…closed down as a DIRECT result of NCP and deregulation…and have now moved to Brazil to become Braztoft and sell their harvesters back to Australia…not so good for the balance of payments figures…government folly and short-sightedness at its most obvious. The ‘victims’ are piled so high, they’re competing with Everest. Foreigners shake their heads in disbelief that we inflict such folly on our own residents and then demand they compete with massively-subsidised-product in all of our competitor nations. …and Peter McGauran’n’Co’re ‘surprised’ that other nations refuse to do the same back home…

One sell-out ‘Free Trade Agreement’ after another and still they have learned NOTHING but how to pander to foreign-governments and transnational-corporates, sending still more of our profits overseas…you don’t have to be Einstein to calculate our current account deficit leaves us somewhat behind-the-eight-ball…

If governments believe that the world will accept ‘Free Trade’ anytime soon…they’ve lost the plot.

IR reforms attempt to reduce real wages to ‘compete’ with the international market too…so should our workers accept $4/day or even $4/hr?

KAEP,service-industries are also in line for this NCP agenda…we should all be aware that there are already many ‘service-contracts’ being ‘filled’ overseas.

The health sector is currently being flooded with overseas-service-providers,doctors,nurses,etc. as a direct result of inappropriate government and departmental cost-cutting and policy-failures in the past…top-heavy, over-paid-administration with insufficient productive-medical-staff.

Brazilian-meat-workers are currently employed in Mackay cheaply…under contract...despite the ‘local’ mining boom…they live crammed into expensive,over-crowded,rental-accommodation...countless other examples...