Social Inclusiveness is lost when anyone is forced to contribute to a system which discriminates against them.

Yes!

It is un-fair-go Australian AND it is just plain wrong!

I felt the article was well targeted where it addressed the Tax System among other things,on same sex couples.

I also supported Warren Entsch MP as he spoke on other aspects of this arguement that involves any "relationship" that is supportive... when it comes to "partnership arrangements" which is a point that is not based on "sexual partnership" ie: Mothers, Sisters, Sons etc, who sometimes move and work together in a domestic and social environment and who need recognition by a system which has trouble facing any issue which is outside the "nuclear family" ... one house two cars model.

I believe that this issue of "being forced to" is rife in Australia, and unfortunately the "forced" parts flag most of the issues that impact the "minority" sectors throughout Australia, even though together these groups are a large bulk of the diverse population.

The thing that gets me is the way the system, by not addressing the social inclusiveness required, by these groups, encourages people (in large numbers to LIE) about their circumstances. This means the recording aspects required for management and planning of a transparent system is clogged with fudged facts and figures at the highest level while the individuals being forced to LIE, at ground levels... for reasons of their own survival, risk being found out as criminals.

Hardly a healthy situation for Community Safety especially when you consider the principals for Crime Prevention, be it on the street or through the systems own budget on addressing centerlink fraud and other black marking deeds of disclosure.

What do you think?

Jim,
You chose to have a homosexual relationship knowing the legal circumstances, so why whinge about it? It's like someone building their house next to a nuclear power plant, then lobbying the government to have it pulled down. There are many aspects of our society that many of us feel discriminated against, but we accept them and get on with living. Our society right now does not consider homosexual relationships equal to heterosexual ones. Any why would it, when the biological function of our sexual organs is for male-female relationships. On that premise homosexual relationships are far from average or normal: they are plain weird, and probably represent less than one in 10,000 of all relationships. Next thing we'll have people wanting their friendships granted some sort of legal right. The legal status you seek won't make any difference to homophobia, in the same way that anti-racial laws will never stop racial discrimination.

Leigh,

I’m a medical doctor and my postgraduate qualification is in sexual health. I hesitate to stake this claim, though, because I reckon that on a forum like this you should be judged on what you say, rather than on any assumed authority: qualified people still say dumb things.

I’m not sure either how you can scientifically “prove” that homosexuality is right or wrong. There are a lot of theories, some more based in reality than others, about what “causes” homosexuality, but at the end of the day we don’t know for certain any more about this than what “causes” heterosexuality. We can reasonably say that genetics plays at least a small role in sexual orientation, but beyond that we’re speculating. It’s important to recognize is that intrinsic orientation, behavior and identity don’t always correspond exactly. And the gay identity we recognize from our own time and culture would not necessarily be comprehensible to other times and other cultures.

Some people derive their beliefs about right and wrong from authorities outside themselves such as religion, tradition, the law, or the Bible. To me this begs the question of the origins of these sources, which are always the societies that have formed these ideas. For me, the ultimate test of right and wrong hinges on whether something harms others. For me, homosexuality in itself doesn’t harm other people, although some types of homosexual behavior, just like some types of heterosexual behavior, can. However I think that arbitrarily denying people rights most of us take for granted on the basis of sexual orientation does harm people, and pressuring gays to adopt heterosexual roles seems both harmful and unnecessary.

Many people feel that homosexuality feels wrong for them personally, but have no trouble accepting it might feel right for other people. Our feelings about our sexuality are deeply felt and sometimes bewildering. It can be hard enough to come to grips with our own sexuality, let alone to stand in the shoes of someone whose desires are alien to our own. But I reckon this reflects a mature confidence in ones own sexuality.

Good post Snout - but one quick question; Why does homosexuality feel so wrong to most people?

I certainly defend people's right to engage in any form of consensual sex, but that does not mean that I don't find the whole idea just a complete turn off to me. Why would the mojority of people think this way?

A quick second question if I may; I remember watching a documentary on an online pedophile ring which got busted in Europe, and they interviewed the people who had been caught engaging in the most despicable activities. They showed the interviews, and what got me was how all the pedophiles said that their urges were natural, and just what they felt, and that this was just their sexuality.

So what makes them wrong and homosexuals right? Most people in the world see the two as pretty much equal in terms of depravity (not in the developed world mind).

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

I suppose Leigh it would also seem unnatural to you to sit down to take a pee being a man. I can also understand why it wouold seem unnatural to you to have sex with another man being straight. This however, does not give you the right to determine what is natural for other people. How could you know? Only each individual can know what is natural for themselves and as long as sex is fully and sincerely consensual between the people concerned, whatever their gender and does no harm at all to others, then I really cannot understand what the problem is.

It seems to me that women generally endure the vast majority of unnatural sexual acts, when men force them to have sex when they don't want to - i.e. rape. If you and the religious crowd spent half as much energy on dealing with these genuine unnatural acts ,than you do on persecuting loving couples who cause no harm at all to others, then it could be said that you were contributing positively to the sexual health of society.

I supppose, however, this would be too much to hope for?

Will and Andreas - wishing you both a very long and happy relationship, you more than deserve it.

(And for the benefit of the fanatics - who are mentally still in the dark ages), I'm sure God in Heaven knows that the two of you contribute much more to society than many that would persecute you. Having the time and energy to spare being so scathing of other peoples relationships suggests these people are probably, sadly, lackng themselves in this wonderful aspect of beinghuman.

Just for laughs, can anyone point to a single piece of evidence that indicates acceptance of homosexuals is damaging to society?

Oh, and why are oblique Biblical references to sodomy so cherished, while clear instructions to beat and enslave our womenfolk are ignored by the faithful?