Amsadl said:

"People don't give a stuff" (about the bigger wider picture) My comment "Amen".. true.

Analyst said: "Parties need numbers to win elections" again.. 3fold 'Amen'.

Gecko mentioned: "Limits to growth.. economic prophets ridiculed".. 7fold amen.

Trade gave his life story :) bludgeoned by the realities of life into 'capitalist mortgage payer'.

CAPITALISM (unrestrained)... will bankrupt resources and reduce us to survival of the fittest Sartrian animals.

SOCIALISM (unrestrained).... will bankrupt the nation and/or reduce the human soul to a small meaningless spot of dust on a tooth of a cog in the huge nebulous 'state'.

DEMOCRACY is based on selfishness and greed.
"Parties need numbers"
"Numbers come from promises"
I've yet to see a promise of 'doom' gaining votes :)

Prophets who go against the natural human 'grain' are never welcome.
Micaiah a true prophet who always spoke from God, (usually 'against the grain messages) was once asked by a king "Should we go up against the Arameans" ? and he replied "Sure.. go for it.. be quick and you will win"... which was exactly what all the 'false' prophets had said.... but somehow the king smelt a rat.. "But you NEVER tell me things I want to hear"........... exactly..

So it is with us.. we reject the solemn message of the "Limitations" because we want life without limit. "Salvation" is abundance.....

Perhaps the problem in all this.....is us.

Just as we don't incline our hearts and minds to 'economic' prophets... we also seldom turn towards the spiritual ones.

But truth, remains true. When our vertical relationship is fixed, our horizontal relationships with our fellow man and with our environment are redeemed. While 'The Church' as we see it and experience it is not perfect, the person who knows Christ also knows that this life will always be blighted by our selfish ways, waxing and waning as we give over to or pull back from the Holy Spirit's still small voice in our hearts, yet.. he/she also knows the presence and reality of eternity.

There is real wisdom, even brilliance, here. Maybe it has been said before in different ways since “The Limits to Growth” 30 years ago. But Peter McMahon says it so simply and well. Many of OLO's regular correspondents have missed his point, with their usual pathetic “worldly wisdom ”, which is actually nothing more than empty-vessel cynical prating that “people always think selfishly”. Actually, with proper leaders and role models, people do care about our childrens’ and grandchildrens’ coming world. Even the stupidest people will change eventually because the price mechanism will force them to. It will be an entirely different world when petrol goes to $5 or $10 per litre. I have recently joined the Greens precisely because this party offers Australia the only hope of steering our country responsibly through the “reverse engineering” processes of technical and societal transition to a sustainable renewable energy economy, with the least pain to our children and grandchildren. The WA energy resources example is a very good example of the problems that are coming. Carpenter will lose his first fight here, because the Australian power structure still cannot see beyond the short term. But eventually more and more voters will see how foolish and irresponsible is such short-term policy thinking. By then, as in Germany, we will have Greens in Australian governments. We will need them, because they are the only party with open minds on these vital issues of preserving human life in decent circumstances as energy resources shrink.
Tony Kevin

You are right, Tony Kevin, the Greens have their sights set on the correct targets, but I think that the article was suggesting that political processes are too slow to respond to the crisis at hand.

Therefore we can't expect the Greens to turn things around. Nor anybody else in politics.

To turn things around we have to focus on politics plus every other avenue available to us. And we can't wait around for other people to take action. We are all in it together.

Gee, it's great to see everyone speaking with (pretty much) one accord on this topic.

I hold out great hope for the Internet, without which we wouldn't have this meeting of true minds. Of course the network is perishable too, just like everything we ever created. Nevertheless, it is the most wonderful tool I ever handled.

- all the more reason to prevent some moronic CEO from tossing it into his glory box.

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Are we headed this way?

An Aussie Fascistic Analogy

Australia’s Slide from Democracy to Despotism

1. Under the Howard government a robust democracy is being white-anted from within.

2. The drift towards authoritarianism has been accelarated by an ineffective opposition.

3. The new links with corporations forged by Labor under Bob Hawke, though not evident at the time because of Hawke’s electoral successes, did ultimately cause Labor’s political descent as the Howard-led opposition filled its rightful place as the corporate-backer.

4. Even in opposition over many years, Labor has still not been able to disconnect its links with Big Business, which should be Labor’s natural enemy especially when the conservatives hold power.

5. Lack of liason between Labor state and Federal Reps was shown in Tasmania during the 2004 election when the State Labor forest campaign helped to sink national Labor candidates.

6. Yet another element rendering the federal coalition meaningless is the enmity between Labor and the Greens. It has been suggested that a coalition arrangement between these two, as in Germany, could help make sure that members of both parties are in agreement ballotwise.

7. Another important point regarding lack of democratic principle in Australia is our failure in doing something about free speech. It has become more obvious with the case of Gunns a US multi-national engaged in logging in Tasmania.

8. Unfortunately, the federal government has become sympathetic to Gunns which under corporate law has been trying to create a case against outspoken anti-logging activists in Tasmania. Though Philip Ruddock as Attorney General, appears somewhat on the side of Gunns, researchers are of the opinion that if Gunns is successful it could back the argument that we are heading towards a type of US backed corporatised totalitarianism interfering with our democratic rights.

9. Finally, we might ask, why is there no comments from the Labor opposition about these problems

Hear, hear, bushbred....

Spot on mate.

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