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The Forum > Article Comments > History never retreats > Comments

History never retreats : Comments

By Mervyn Bendle, published 27/7/2006

Identity - personal, national, cultural and religious - is one of the key dynamics shaping global politics, and our identity arises from our history.

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Yeah sure GrahamY just like the other ten zillion bits of personal cyberspace. It’s not for the bread maaaan.
Leigh I am too a pretty boy. Why is it so hard for me to drag myself away from the mirror?
Conversation with “Paddy”.
Mervyn says: “Many first-year university students … resent not knowing about important historical events, such as the Reformation, the Enlightenment, and the industrial, scientific and communication revolutions.”
In the USA a graduate degree takes four years. US freshman students do a broad-based first year. Maths, English and American history are mandatory (plus prerequisites). My source, “Paddy” chose physics, modern world history, political science and film

“Paddy” who spent a year in the southern USA says that the history course was “very” balanced. Given OLO posters sceptical view of historians, I raised the spectre of bias.

He said: “It didn’t take sides, it just looked at things from an outsiders perspective so, for instance, it went into the North’s injustice against southern farmers in their fight to abolish slavery; it looked at the Indigenous history and we even studied the ideas of hard-core generals who wanted to exterminate the Indians. It looked at the complexities, so even though the Confederate farmers were bigoted - did they deserve to be killed and have their homes and crops destroyed? A lot of the deaths in this war were just simple farmers.

“Americans really know their history well. Americans are a lot more passionate about things like that; whereas in Australia there seems to be a ‘go with the flow kind of thing .’ In Australia no one is game to get up and express themselves. Americans are not afraid to stand up and tell you what they think even though they know everyone will disagree with them. Challenging.

“We were arguing in a class situation about hate groups like KKK, not only KKK we were looking at black hate groups too. All seemed to be based predominantly on race. I can’t remember any anti-government hate groups or classist hate group.

“The debate shifted to banning to the KKK.
Cont
Posted by rancitas, Friday, 28 July 2006 3:25:17 PM
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Bushbred, thanks for your kind comments, and condolences for your loss.

Good fortune permitting, I will be around a few decades yet to stir the pot. I can only hope that when I have attained your vintage, I will be as adept as you are at using whatever new-fangled communication technologies have emerged by then.

Best

Mercurius
Posted by Mercurius, Friday, 28 July 2006 4:53:36 PM
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inued
“ I was completely shocked when an African-American said that the KKK should be allowed on the basis of freedom of speech. This in the deep south. I just couldn’t believe it.

“The other side argued that because, if you yell out ‘fire, fire’ as a prank, it is regarded as obscene under the constitution It is an obscenity because it can cause harm . You can get into deep trouble.

“Others argued that the KKK does cause harm. So the obscenity rule should hold. “

“America doesn’t seem concerned with intra threats but seems to be bent on the external.

“ The whole concept of freedom of speech is kind of expressed in their whole culture.

“They are not afraid to stand up and say something - even though it might, to others, be completely stupid; whereas in Australia young people are a bit stilted on that.

“They’ll just join an organisation.

“Most (Aussies) just go with the flow . They don’t really think things through.”

“Americans take the risk.

“ Outside the classroom they don’t take differences like that to heart.

“ It was a bit hard to tell though when you don’t really blend in with the people.”

The reason for the freshman year is to get people on a level playing field. They come from different backgrounds and areas where the standards vary.

He said: “American history was really hard for me because they had already learned a lot at earlier times. At uni it is very involved in drawing connections. Like what happens now is in part because of something that happened a hundred years ago.”
END

Is history is one big anecdote or a ten zillion little ones? What is the effect of internet on history retold? .

Mervyn says: “An adequate knowledge of the intertwined histories of liberal democracy, socialism, conservatism and totalitarianism, … is essential if students are to understand the nature of global conflict.”

History repeats?
http://www.rancitas.blogspot.com/

Yes but watch the spectre raisers go to work. For instance: spectres of “leftist academics”.

Bushbred, good articulate works. Condolances.
Posted by rancitas, Friday, 28 July 2006 5:09:14 PM
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Bushbred

Always enjoy your posts. Look forward to future thoughts. Heart felt condolences on your loss.

Rancitas

Loving your blog, especially cartoons; the "foreign Kiddies" one is a personal fave, Jet Pilot says all that needs to be said about M.E.

As for western ideology/politics etc - far from perfect, religious/political factions continue to create divisions, but still better than communism, still believe in free speech (continue to skip BD's posts) and exercising freedom of choice.

One thing our way of life requires is constant vigilance, we are threatened just as much by global corporatism as we are by religious fundmentalism.

Beware of all ISMS.
Posted by Scout, Saturday, 29 July 2006 10:43:40 AM
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As an Australian nation, we cannot simply "afford the luxury of wallowing in the sludge of self-imposed confusion, doubt, guilt and apologetics".

Debate Points - Take One:

In recent decades, and after the shocking events of violence, war and the generation of even more displacement and the consequence of deeping poverty, we feel the " fear " of these threats to community safety, at all regional and ground levels...

We, the general Australian public, are acting as if we are being trained to " distrust any claim to knowledge or authority" because we are allowing ourselves to feel powerless, overwhelmed, and disconnected by repeating unfortunately, as though it were a comfort in brainwash type therapy, "It's not as if it's some sort of conspiracy, it's just the way the system works."

This is I believe is because Australia forgets it is - if it wants to be - an innovative "learning society."

I find Australian culture itself has lost the "fair go" ascent for everyone by forgetting to pro-activate the "social justice" element necessary in overall cultural maintenance, (in dealing with "empathy" and the acceptance of progressive change), because to participate in "informed open debate" is, in this country... personally dangerous (i.e. whistle blowing at any level - community fear of police or even mental health authorities... as just three strategic examples).

Instead we ought to work toward enforcing the policys that work to flush out structural violence, oppression and or abusive behavior - (bullies, sexual abuse and other invisibles).

This is because I believe, key elements of critical thinking, (by taking responsiblity at communty level - rather than expecting an-other - say, a particular Gov .. "should do it"...) is not widely promoted and not made safe, yet in this country.

www.miacat.com
Posted by miacat, Saturday, 29 July 2006 2:13:24 PM
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Debate Points - Take Two:

We need subjective thinkers, we need to empathise through listening better, we need to be more gratifing without the judgements that support those who conform without thought, to practices which require change.

We need to renew "partnership socio-politcal and historial cultural protocols".

This is because in the bigger picture.... International, National, State and at local and ground levels, issues of safety at a community level through "collective security" and "crime prevention" are no more than token grab-lines which suffer from non-proactive and individualistic protocols, be it at school through debates in the classroom, round the table at tea, or through the way we work together overall as a nation - participating through open and active informed debate, being part of what is influencing us - as we accept our individual socio-politcal and cultural place in world politics.

We as a National Culture, need to make it safer to learn and to communicate, together as a diverse community.

I thank the Mervyn Bendle for this paper, I felt it stands out for what it presents, giving us ways to consider the deeper issues - and is another means to approach aspects of this well known, and sometimes frustrating arguement.

www.miacat.com
Posted by miacat, Saturday, 29 July 2006 2:23:44 PM
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