Let’s go a little further and remove offending passages from the various holy books. For instance, the simplistic Manichaean theme is something that would disappear after a thoroughgoing review. After all, many people might be offended by the tag ‘sinner’. And so on to the qur’an and other holy books. Once the offending passages are removed holy books may consist of a few pages only.

I'll agree its a fine line - but I've always been of the view that stereotypes such as these are a symptom, not a cause. You can't cure the symptoms until you cure the disease, and to simply ban certain images is not the solution.
The racist images of jews and chinese and so forth you refer to have never been banned - the public has acknowledged their racism and don't want to see them, which is why a cartoonist won't draw them - though the cartoonist could if they wanted to.

Once you start banning forms of expressions, you're hitting a very rocky road.
I for one, was disgusted to hear the Australian government was banning certain books that encourage terrorism.

I don't care what the book contains. I don't want to be told what I can and can't read.

The only real way to deal with problems such as this is to force a change in public opinion, so there is a non-violent outcry when they are published. Then the publisher won't publish them anymore. I'll acknowledge that its hard to change public opinion if you can't remove the cartoons, but that's just too bad.

" One day I called a Muslim editor of a leading paper in Sydney suggesting ways to repair the damage inflicted by cartoonists. His immediate response was “Why should we? We know the truth ...”"

If he isn't doing something about it, you can't expect the rest of us to go along with banning a form of expression.

Abe Ata,

Welcome to the western world were freedom of speech, stereotyping, and humour is a way of life.

You are blaming the media for portraying what Arab islamists are. If you don't like what you see in the mirror : CHANGE IT.

We all know that Arabic speaking Muslems make only 15% of the global muslem world. Most Muslems are Asians - who incidentally can't read or comprehend the Arabic text of their holy book.

The fact is that Muslem Arabs are more visible and more vocal in our society - they get a first serve of the sharpened pencils. Then they scream foul play and come back for more.

First you have to admit to yourself that Islam is the culprit not the media.

Second don’t attack freedom of speech because you don’t like what you see or hear.

Thirdly grouping Islam with other religions (Christianity) is not adding any legitimacy to your cause. Let the people judge your religion on its own merit – not how it compares to others.

Islam is a political movement, disguised as a main stream religion; turbo charged with religious zealots, fuelled by ignorance (50% of arabs are illiterate), motivated by a self inflicted stereotyping that cannot be homogenised in our free society.

The worldwide unrest of Islam that we are witnessing is mostly self-inflicted. Islam is growing faster than any other group. Migration (forced or otherwise) puts Muslems in a lose-lose predicament – with very little prospects for integration in new (non-islamic) places.

World domination by destruction of “other ways" of life is their only way out for the continuous global spread of this irreversible, inflexible, intolerant, so called “religion”.

TurnRightThenLeft, well said.

coach - did the author suggest that he was muslim? If so I missed that bit. Again your post looks like any excuse to let your own agenda's come before fair play but that is old ground.

I'd prefer to see the Aussie muslim community putting more effort into censoring the extremists in its own midst rather than telling the non muslim community how to speak (Irfan and others have done some good work on this) but I still see Kaiser Trad on the media seemingly speaking on behalf of the muslim community despite his previously referenced insults regarding the mainstream australian community.

I'd like to see the comdemnation of muslim extremism by mainstream muslims be much louder and more public. I would have liked to see the same level of protest at the loss of life for people living in Israel at the hands of muslim militants as I have seen regarding the loss of life in Southern Lebanon but that does not make most muslims extremists or supporters of extremists. Rather it shows that like most of us they have an ability to downplay the wrongdoings of those they identify with and get offended at attacks on what they percieve to be their community.

That is part of the human experience.

R0bert

Robert,
As an Australian Muslim who attended the first protest against the conflict, I agree that there needed to be the same level of protest against the killing of civilians in Israel just as much as Lebanon.
There can be no double-standards where the loss of innocent life is concerned. I was dissapointed after attending the rally because it did not address all of the complexities of this conflict: most speakers at the rally were merely playing the blame game. Although the rally was peacfeful, it failed to address the issues at hand. Hence, open forums like these and dialogue are a great place to start.

I will make this view known: Mainstream Muslims abhor and condemn acts of violence and we will persist in doing so.
There is no justification for violence or murder, criminals may usurp Islam and claim they speak for Muslims and God but in fact, they show complete disregard and misunderstandng of the tenets of Islam when they commit acts of violence.

Rayann

Dr. Ata stuffs himself up in his first few words: ‘Australian, and other Western ignorance about the Arab world.’

People just love to be called ‘ignorant’, and will always respond in a friendly manner. NOT!

As Arabs are the ones who have come to Australia, Dr. Ata should be concentrating on trying to improve Arab knowledge of the Australian and Western world. The rest of us will manage just fine without any knowledge of the Arab world. And even if we did wish to delve into Arabian mysteries, Arabs themselves have made it quite clear that they don’t want to be ‘looked into’.

Dr. Ata does admit that Arab community leaders ‘have not always been good at presenting their case.’ What an understatement that is. We only hear from them when they bellyache about how some Arab atrocity in the world will rebound on their ‘community’, or when they want our Government to remove Hezbollah from the terrorist list.

‘The pitch of imagery targeting Muslims finds no match’, eh Dr. Ata? Perhaps that could be because they are so very, very different from the other groups you mention? For starters, the others you mentioned can take a joke and have fitted in very well with the Australian love of extracting the urine.

It has to be accepted that Arab people are the most ‘different’ people ever to arrive in Australia. It will be a minor miracle if they ever fit in properly. In the meantime, they are safe and have the same opportunities as everyone else. It’s up to them make the most of it, and blaming the culture of a country they chose to come to is not the way to go about it.

When we see the barrage of cartoons depicting politicians, sports people, celebrities and just about anyone who acts like a twit (irrelevant to their belief) in this country, this article is just another infantile monotheist dummy spit.

The problem with the religious is they're so far up themselves, they see nothing but the self inflicted agony of their belief. Not realising, normal people don't care and get joy out of the ridiculous actions and statements of prehistoric ideologies. In this country, if you act like a dill, you cop the flack and laugh with everyone else. Otherwise, your in the wrong country.

Just because a belief in god takes away joy, harmony and freedoms, so you can't even laugh at your own foolishness, doesn't give anyone the right to take away others ability to laugh at themselves. During my life I've seen every race, creed, belief, local, food, drink, sex, you name it and Australians have drawn a cartoon about it. Its our sense of humour and we enjoy it.

Real Australians are secure in themselves and their country, so having a go at each other is a form of endearment. It's what we are, that depicts us, not what a group of despotic barbaric beliefs want us to bow down to. Leave Abe, don't come back and take all the other wowsers with you.

I can see the cartoon now. A small group of people with a big black cloud hovering above them rowing away in a boat, with their bibles and koran's as oars and sails. On the top of the mast, a big neon sign flashing, WE ARE LOVE AND WE BRING PEACE, as their guns in the bow blaze a path forward. A christian says to a muslim, as a jew counts the money and nods in approval. 'What right do those yobbo Australians have telling us we can't come here and take them over by destroying their way of life, as we've done with every other society on earth'.

Hi Coach,

Thank you indeed for informing me that *stereotyping* is "a way of life" of people of the West. I was not aware of the fact.

Stereotyping means judging on the basis of accumulated experience with members of the same group or the same type. You would be absolutely mad if you repeatedly refused to take into account earlier, similar experiences. Even the author speaks in stereotypes, starting in his openiong semtence, becasuse there is no way but to sort into groups and categories the mass of our previous individual experiences.
Now, you have to ask yourself: is my group and my type in any way responsible for how we are seen by others? And is my own personal behaviour conforming to that type'of behaviour, manner, speech, temperament (things within my own control)?
We judge other by their deeds and are judged in turn by our deeds. That's where the perennial difficulty lies - if I don't like how other people see me I have to change myself. And that is often too hard. It is easier to call for a change in other people. The author glimpses this but seems to think that he'd try the easy option of 'change the other people' first. By so doing, he inadvertently reinforces the sterotype which he had set out to combat.

Abe Ata “Australian, and other Western ignorance about the Arab world”

I find offensive, that “ignorance” is assumed because political cartoonists tend to be as indifferent to "Arab sensitivities" as they do to "Caucasian sensitivities”.

I recall Harold McMillan, Conservative Prime Minister of Britain who was lampooned by the TV program TW3. When asked by the head of BBC if such rudeness (in early 1960’s) should be edited out from TV programs said “most certainly not”.

Such is the standard of political and social “hands-off” which we should all aspire to.

As for

“Conscious or unconscious racism should not be a component of our politics, nor should it be disguised as freedom of speech.”
As for one of two evils, “racism” is a far less insidious and predatory force than censorship and the institutional repression of free speech.
I guess most Iranians and other Arabs do not get to criticise their political / religious masters as freely as we expect to lampoon and send up ours.
Too bad, I bet the average Ali Baba in Tehran does seriously envy what we accept as “free speech”.

“And while any cartoonist, Australian or others, must perforce deal in stereotypes, there are some which are outdated, insensitive and threaten community harmony.”

The only threat to “community harmony” is the one which Abe Ata implies from Arab retaliation.

The threat is not the cartoons but (if the burning and rioting as seen in some Arab states – re “western cartoons” is anything to go by) the from inability of those of Arab extract to accept the historic practices of Western society (basically – if you cannot accept our western standards, move back to where the standards are more to your liking – probably the 17th century).

Cartoons are a form of social entertainment and something to enliven the everyday.

In Riyadh public beheadings pass as a form of social entertainment and something to enliven the everyday.

Go figure, I bet the bloke who lost his head would be far have preferred to be the butt of the cartoonists art – should we ask him?

Speaking of 'stereotyping'... I was the recipient of some last week.

This week I managed to clear it up with the security personell at the County Court.

I dressed in all black attire, combat boots, with the legs of my trousers tucked in to the socks, and attended the Terrorism trial.

I became the conspicuous object of attention and double take. It was an experiment in stereotyping and an act of street theatre to see what the impact was.

This week, clothed normally, and speaking to the same security guys, I asked them cordially how they 'perceived' me last time. The consensus was 'Neo Nazi/White supremacist/Militia/Vigilante'. Perhaps thats why I was subjected to such intense searches.

This type of experience must be that of many Arabs simply because of their attire.

I hope that we can learn to differentiate between say Christian Lebanese and Muslim Lebanese, because they are as different as the East is from the West.

Today, standing outside RMIT holding a poster exposing PLO involvement in Genocide, I encountered 2 interesting passers by, both complemented my stand and one was a white Aussie, the other was a black Somalian student named Mohamed ! who shook my hand and wished me well.

I had one eye looking out for someone maybe wanting to give me a king hit, but I only experienced politeness.

I'm sure I would have been perceived much differently if I'd used the same getup as last week.... 'stereotypes' :)

Stereotyping of a large established group in a society and cartoons are acceptable. Irish jokes were accepted even though they annoyed a lot of people of Irish background because they were a large secure group and everyone agrees that these people were not in any way inferior.

Stereotyping of a small or less established group can be a problem. For example Jews came to Australia initially with the First Fleet and they became quickly embedded within our society yet anti Jewish jokes can be harmful to such a small group. Similarly the Chinese can be adversely affected by this.

Generally Muslims are a new group, and cartooning can be very damaging to them.

Live for the day when Arab Muslims (and other Muslims for that matter) can get over their ignorance and stop stereotyping others in a negative sense. Can anyone say `infidel'?

In particular, a quick glance at the cartoons section of memri.org should disabuse anyone that is interested of the notion that the problem is a Western one. No shortage of ignorance on display there. That special Der Stürmer - Saudi crossover style we are all so fond of.

This level of hypocrisy by the author is quite an achievement.

I guess Abe Ata loses this round of the propaganda war for Islam.

I think the OOL Forum should ban the flashing from these helicopter adds. They nearly give me epilepsy from the this flashing above, on the side and on the middle. This is too intrusive. It puts me off this site. I will certainly give nothing to UNHCR unless they show compassion to those of us with epilepsy. The overzealous flashing is hard to endure for those of us affected this way.

----

With the Arab world, I wonder if burning the Australian, American and Union Jack flags with such anger and offensive sentiments are ignorant stereotypes. How many demonstrations have I seen: anti-Jewish sentiments: burning their papier Mache sculptures of Hassidic Jews burning, and western greedy pig bashing. OK, there will always be a rationale. But this is an anti-western stereotype-all-the-same.

We are not all greedy pigs that are anti-Islam. Why are we cast this way in the ME?

Buddha had a great saying. You want to give me this gift? I don't accept it. Where does the gift go? To the wind or to the crow? I do not know.

Or in the west the saying goes, if the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it.

At the same time negative images of Islamic Arabs can incite hate and violence. There is a point that the problem may not be for the sake of offending the Islamic people here, but inflaming hatred that is already here generates Euro Australians to irrationally hate.

There is a difference between being funny and being offensive. We need to agree on the difference. When is not just offensive but possibly dangerous and against our national interest? I doubt the west would have a clue. There does have to be a line somewhere for the sake of peace, courtesy and respect.

PS. Someone please kill that flashing helicopter.

saintfletcher

There is a way to remove the flashing helicopter and other flashing adds.

I do it by using "Mozilla Firefox" as my browser. It is better and more secure than Internet Explorer and free just go to their website.

Then add "Adbloc" as a an add on. It takes a bit of time to get going, (read the instructions first) but removes most adds. Firefox is a serious browser, open source and favoured by most computer specialists - it is a development of Netscape.

There is no doubt an equivalent for Explorer.

The author's own stereotyping of the western culture is making him blind to the fact that all Arabs are not muslems; and all muslems are not Arabs.

Lebanon for example has always been a Christian Francophone country. For many years it was called the Switzerland of the east. Lebanese people are not Arabs. For centuries prior to the islamic invasion of the 7th century Lebanese were known as Phoenicians or Canaanites.

So to lump all ME people as Arabs is a blunt ignorant perception on the part of Mr. Ata. There are great differences that need to be highlighted.

Another example are the Copts of Egypt. They are the true Native Egyptians (not Arab) who embraced Christianity well before the Islamic contamination of their nation. Today they are a minority which is heavily persecuted by Islam.

Iraq is another example, Iran, Turkey, and on and on... Islam is on a quest to Islamise the whole world. And what is the west doing? Scribble cartoons and make jokes of this sombre epidemic.

Because the Qur’an was allegedly given (by Allah) to Mohammed in Arabic it is assumed that Islam is synonymous to Arab.

I watch in disbelieve how these poor arrogant ME souls are proud to portray themselves as “different from the western society" and still expect respect and dignity on their terms…huh!

What happened to nationalistic pride of desecration of our flag? Or worse flinging another flag (terrorist Hezballah) in the middle of a protest in Melbourne recently?

Whatever happened to law and order in this country? Are we so layback that we will let the true infidels take over all our freedoms without a fight?

Great point R0bert and to answer your question to Coach, no the author does not suggest he is a Muslim in fact at the bottom of the article it says, "Dr Ata is a 9th generation Christian Palestinian academic born in Bethlehem". Mouthbreather you seem to suggest Dr Ata is an Arab Muslim too when in fact he appears to be an Arab Christian.

Col Rouge and TurnRightThenLeft I agree and think it's better to have open comment made and rebutted than censorship.

Leigh posted that muslims are the most different migrants Australia has had, I would add, also the most difficult.Never before can I recall such a malcontent mob of newcomers .
Perhaps to import a mix of people who are so totally consumed by such a ramrod ,intolerant religion into a western society where freedom of speech, dress,humour and a complete lack of respect for all kinds of bull dust was a stupid if not downright criminal act.
Australians have no respect for such intolerance, it has no place here.
Now do we like seeing our streets being dominated by an aggressive lot who are spreading their hatred of other Australians. That is racism writ large. And out of place in our easy going society.

So many anti muslim comments to an article that discussed how to reduce this animosity.

Certainly there is a nasty group who are causing great problems.

But we must differentiate, the majority are not like that. So many Arab Muslims left for Australia to avoid the fanatics. And how are we treating them? Where is the traditional Aussie friendship that my Great Grandparents enjoyed when they arrived here?

1. Coach do you blame the Nazis for portraying the Jews as greedy scumbags who were responsible for Germany's loss in the war?
No? "But that's just how they were!" says the evil, brainwashed Nazi. "They're just telling it like it is".

2. Islam is not the culprit. If it was then why weren't these issues huge 60 years ago? Why were people fascinated with hating the Jews? Every century or so, people find a new scapegoat for their hatred. A new race/religion they can target. Does this mean I get to live to see another holocaust?

3. In terms of intelligence, do you know how much Islam has done since its inception? I mean for medicine, poetry, science etc. Do you know anything or are you really as stupid as you appear?

4. I don't think any Muslim leaders need to say anything to denounce terrorism. What for? It's not their role to counter stupidity and people who are so easily brainwashed into being 'scared' of billions of people in the world.

5. Australia is a very young country. For anyone to assume that it needs to protect its way of life and its “culture” is laughable.
Australia IS a melange of cultures. That's how it will evolve and survive. It cannot remain a nation with the current "values" endorsed by John Howard. We take our “values” and our “way of life” from other countries anyway but we’re unwilling to accept the East?

6. On the Australian census results they have Christians and Non-Christians to group the various religions.
Is that not just as offensive as the term infidel?

7. "We are not all greedy pigs that are anti-Islam"

- Saintfletcher meet Coach. Coach meet Saintfletcher.

8. Lebanese people may claim to be of Phoenician descent. But that’s like saying Iraqis aren’t Arab they’re Babylonian. It’s all the same!! These are ancient, outdated societies, bought up again to psychologically divide the people. I’m sorry but the Lebanese people speak Arabic as well as French, eat Arabic cuisine and share an Arabic culture that is scarily similar to the Palestinians.

fleurette

We are often together. May it always be so. I totally agree with you.

It is a pity that you were a bit agressive to Coach. I can understand why and the same thing happens to me when people have a go at Jews and Israel. Not that I think anyone or group is perfect they all make mistakes and all have "nasties" in their ranks.

As the fourth generation of my family to live in Melbouren Anglo/Christian insularity irks me too.

When you say "I don't think any Muslim leaders need to say anything to denounce terrorism" you are right, and indeed they have. But unfortunately it will be in their interest to do so, and loudly. That is human nature.

Personally I like the East and accept it easily. The melange of cultures has made Australia a unique country of which I am proud. And I love Arabic cuisine and music. It has been widely adopted in Israel too, amongst the European Jews as well as amongst the Muslim Jewish and Christian Easterners.

Trapping Arabs in a cartoon? Are they rats in a rat-cage?

If someone kills for the sake of a cartoon, then they really are like the murderers in that cartoon.

Someone said Islam is a peaceful religion.. Yes, it is a Pieceful religion.. blowing up people into pieces

Fleurette and Logic,
I mostly agree with your views.

About the muslim leaders, I do think that it will benefit everyone if they get deeply involved. Muslim leaders (and the govt as well) should help encourage muslims to get involved in our communities and ask non-muslim Australians to be more accepting.

Stereo-typing in a negative way in cartoons of other ways will have no audience if everyone is involved with everyone. Minority groups are always vulnerable- the best antidote against having vulnerable minority groups that feel alienated in our communities is to help them integrate.

Leigh,
I think that Dr Ata is correct to call us Westerners ignorant about the Arab world. I think that this is not meant as an insult but a blameless fact; but it’s true vice versa as well: Arabs often are also ignorant about the Western world.
Both sides carry responsibility of informing each other about their sensitivities and traditions.

The best thing Australians can do is to accept that there is a difference. I’m not talking about accepting the Islam, but accepting that people are different and giving each other the freedom to be different.

People from different worlds do not necessarily have to have the same ideas to be able to live peacefully in the same country. It should be do-able.

Westerners themselves have not exactly adapted to the culture and values of aboriginals when they settled here, have they? They expected the aboriginals to live up to Western standards and values, not the other way around. Now Westerners want immigrants to adopt their values as well.

The thing that everybody will have to answer to is the Australian law. As long as everyone stays within the law, doesn’t harm others and just accepts each other we will all be just fine.

Despite terrorism and cartoons, the integration and acceptance of muslims in the Australian community should always be encouraged. These are negative things that we just have to set aside and focus on the bigger and more positive picture.

Celivia

I agree totally with you. We already have a number of different cultures. The First Fleet included Protestants, Catholics and Jews. Then Chinese arrived then Muslims. And we already had the Aborigines and the Torres Strait Islanders.

Each group eventually finds its own way and each contributes as it can.

But stereotyping new minorities is very insulting and harmful. It prevents the ulitimate integration and reduces the richness of our culture. I believe in freedom of speech but we are also entitled to ask speakers to show commonsense and respect.

George Orwell once said that intellectuals parrot slogans who's literal meaning they do not even understand. He parodied their stereotypical beahviour in his book "1984", where his utopian proletariate chanted the mantras of "War is Peace!" "Love is Hate!" and "Freedom is Slavery!"

Human beings think by catagorising concepts. That is a form of stereotyping. When people say "don't stereotype", they are actually saying "don't think".

Groups of people are very easy to stereotype. In order to become "a group", people must display a deeply held ideal of what constitutes acceptable group behaviour. Almost every group of people makes no secret of what those core values are. Similarly, groups usually openly declare what behaviour is expected of their members, especially to those who aspire to become members of the group.

If I was to say to stereotype the Chinese to a trendy lefty, and say that Chinese are intelligent and hardworking, even Marilyn Shephard would not take issue with that. If I was to say that Italians have a flair for design or Greeks a talent for pleasant music, Marilyn would praise my perspacicity.

But if I was to stereotype aboriginees as lazy and not real bright, or negro men as being very prone to extreme violence, Marilyn and Co. would go beserk.

So what the trendies are saying, is that positive stereotypes are OK, but negative stereotypes are absolutely unacceptable. Such an obvious contradiction means that what they really want, is for some groups of people to be immune from any criticism at all.

That is unacceptable to me, and it should be unacceptable to any person who claims to possess an inquiring mind with a functioning critical analysis circuit.

I agree, Logic, stereotyping is prejudgmental and can influence people’s behaviour on both sides in negative ways.
People who stereotype will behave mostly in a negative or even aggressive way towards the group they stereotype, while people being stereotyped go in defence or in attack or simply feel rotten and lose their self-confidence. They need self confidence to fit in- they need to go out to get jobs, for example. The funny cartoons will seem much less funny if people realise how much they can contribute to harming this group of people and to harming the whole country.

Redneck, although I agree with you that humans naturally catagorise concepts- and I think we all automatically stereotype- I don’t agree that asking people not to stereotype is the same as asking them not to think. I think it is asking them to think more.

People, throughout history, had the need to stereotype for survival. But we have the choice, as more evolved humans, to either stop at the stereotyping level or to think beyond that level.
Stereotyping is, in my eyes, a very simplified and primitive way of thinking.
Cartoonists are using simplified thinking, the easiest form or thinking, to draw stereotyped cartoons. They have good drawing skills, but their thinking damages others.

About free expression, yes, I value freedom of expression when it is your own thinking you are expressing.
When cartoonists are stereotyping as their form of expression, it is not their own free thinking that they are expressing because stereotype thinking is usually culturally based and not personally based.
Stereotypers do not think for themselves- they adopt and express the thinking of a big group, of a culture, religion, or another ‘safe’ or popular group.
Therefore, they won't do any damage to their freedom of expression if they would refrain from drawing stereotyped cartoons.

Continued

By drawing stereotyping cartoons we are ‘showing off’ that we are using stereotyped thinking, we are not thinking realistically, we are simple thinkers, we are not using our brain’s ability to the fullest potential.
Most importantly, we are using our thinking skills to put people down, to harm them and to alienate them.

I think it is fine to criticise and question people’s religions, people’s ideas, people’s values. If nobody criticised anything or anyone nothing would ever change and nothing would be discussable.
People are always in search of the truth, and asking critical questions is a way to come closer to the truth and reality.
But to criticise by stereotyping is an unfair, negative and primitive way of criticism and it is not even realistic.

Use criticism that is based on real, thought-through opinions and personal ideas, not based on stereotyping.

Celivia “People who stereotype will behave mostly in a negative or even aggressive way towards the group they stereotype,”

I would reckon that is merely a “stereotype” of those people who stereotype and as such is as inaccurate and negative as the dogma of the kkk (who stereotype and attack anyone with an IQ over 70 – oh dear, there I go stereotyping kkk members).

The only way of “valuing” people is to treat them as individuals and respect their right to be wrong, to disagree with what we think is “right” and to live their life in peaceful co-existence – now all we need to do is bomb Hezbollah into extinction before they do it to us.

Your right on the money redneck (well with a name like that you would have to be).

Now – what is the difference between stereotyping and racial profiling ? – nothing at all, except racial profiling (when used to identify those most likely to steal from or bomb others) has an end benefit

Col Rouge, I said “mostly”- meaning: mainly; usually (not always)- otherwise that would be stereotyping, indeed.
Anyway, we are all guilty of stereotyping as I said in my last post- all we can do is try to be aware of it and then decide if we want to think some more about it.

I am mainly worried about the cheap laughs people are getting at the expense of this minority group and minority groups in general. Kicking them when they’re down is a really negative way of trying to deal with a problem or serious issue.

The more people who find it these kind of cartoons funny, the more demand there will be for those cartoons and the more jobs for cartoonists who make a living out of ridiculing others.

The more arrogant we are, the more we laugh and the more inequality this minority group will have to face.

Please don’t hold it against these people if many cannot get a job because they’re being discriminated against. Who’s fault is that?

And have you thought about the effect these cartoons can have, directly or indirectly, on the children belonging to this minority group?

All people living in Australia should be treated equally- we have at least two things in common: we live here and we are people.
Why would YOU deserve better threatment than they do?

An interesting thing about stereotyping is that used against a secure group it does no harm. For example the Irish jokes.

Also some groups actually stereotype themselves. For example British and Jewish humour. But this is only accepted if the jokes come from the group's own members.

But used against a group on the outer it can be highly damaging. That is why we can permit stereotypes against some groups and not others.

Celivia,

You are stereotyping "most" as being amused by the cartoons.

I for one am not smiling when I see one. I find them disturbing and telling.

Cartoonists have the ability to express the truth in grotesque exaggeration - but it's the truth anyway.

There is no escaping from the truth that all (or should I say ‘most’) acts of terrorism in recent times have been performed by the particular group that you are protecting.

Being tolerant is one thing but being naive is unacceptable these days. We are dealing with a violent, cunning, malign enemy, that will stop at nothing to establish its religious law in our country.

What's so bad about that you may ask?

Be informed about the political history of Islam...before you make comments that show your misapprehension of a very very grave situation the free world is facing today.

This is no laughing matter I can assure you.

Logic, that’s true- secure groups have established themselves and minority groups are still struggling to find their place. Thanks for pointing that out.

Coach, I am glad you are not amused by the cartoons. Do we agree that these cartoons are inappropriate?

I want to make clear though, that I am not at all, as you think, protecting terrorism or denying that acts of terrorism have been performed by Muslim extremists. I'm pro zero-tolerance for terrorism and violence.

But this article is particularly discussing Arabs in Australia. They are the people we meet in the street or the Arabs our kids might go to school with- they are not terrorists walking around wrapped in bomb-belts.

Both my children have Muslim friends from Arab countries (as well as Christian and non-religious friends) with whom they went/go to school with. They are lovely, really good kids and so are their families. They do nothing wrong. They just want a normal life just like we all do.

They do not approve of violence and destruction. Perhaps they wanted to emigrate to Australia for this reason- to escape from all that.
It is very distressing to know they, as peaceful people, are the victims of racial violence or abuse in Australia.

We must draw a clear line between extremism and conservatism in Islam. There is a line that only the extremists want to cross, where there is approval of violence to fight opponents, the disbelievers.

Muslims (not extremists!) are in a difficult position: they/their religion are being harmed not only by extreme Muslims but also by Westerners who don’t know this difference and blame and attack the conservative Muslims.

I still stick to my original (perhaps naive) opinion , and say that we need to differentiate, not stereotype. If we don’t then innocent people including children will suffer.
Cartoonists who use racial stereotyping are just representing the facts from only one angle and focus on the extremists- thereby giving a bad reputation to the whole Islamic population in Australia.

Celivia,

Thanks for acknowledging my post.

Your perception of Islam and it seems other religions too are very superficial.

In the case of Islam you can be sure that there is no clear line separating the radical extremist and your average good neighbour.

To prove my point you need look no further than the British-born model citizens that plot to destroy others for the only reason that their religion tells them to do so.

Those who don't go to that extreme will not condemn that behaviour and give you many pretexts that Islam is a religion of peace. Bull dust.

I haven't seen any mass protest from any muslem group against any of their terrorist acts - including Bali. On the contrary the only time they hit the streets is when someone attacks their religion.

It is a natural human quality to be on the side of non-violence - but Islam was founded on violence. (Check for yourself).

Islam is not your one of the mill world religion. It's only reason for existing is to propagate and acquire land for their own. Because they cannot integrate in new lands - unless they become secular, in which case they are ostracised by their own and are labelled as infidels (like all of us non-muslems) to the cause of Islam.

The persecution is self-inflicted. Let’s face it Islam cannot change to please the host country so they must change "it" to accommodate their religion.

My wife and I have spent more than fifty years (combined) in several Arabic speaking countries. We know Islam and its attitudes towards the west very well.

My prayer is that Australians will wake up in time to stop the tide that otherwise is going to engulf us if we don’t fence against it.

Coach, I am not here to defend Islam or to attack it, and I do not deny that there are problems with Islam.
The dangers you are pointing out may be valid- but this is not what this discussion is supposed to be about.

The discussion is about the fairness of degrading and ridiculing of muslims in Australia by drawing stereotyping cartoons about them and how it affects their life in a negative way and I think we have to talk about whether this is a healthy way of dealing with the fear and problems.

The amount of knowledge I have about religion is irrelevant to this issue because we don’t need knowledge about Islam to see that ridiculing ANY minority group in Australia is an unfair, inferior and primitive way of dealing with problems people face or criticism people have about Islam.

If one wants to criticise Islam as a religion that’s fine, but don’t vilify and make fun of innocent muslims.

Rather, think about what kind of strategy Australia uses to deal with this problem- does it need improvement?

If we find Islam an abusive, violent or dangerous religion threatening the safety of Australia and Australian democracy, then be a good example and think of non-threatening, non-abusive ways to handle this.

People die on our roads. We do not ban cars, but try to prevent accidents: improve on safe cars, safe roads, visible signs, testing for alcohol levels, fining speeding etc. We keep improving on safety. We do not ban cars.
We do not draw silly cartoons of drunk drivers running over a child and laugh about it.

When people are afraid of Islam, why don’t we speak of our concerns about safety concerning Islam?
There are many issues to discuss, for example setting Australian standards of qualification of Imams.

Coach

Christianity has equal dificulties in coming to terms with other faiths. But we are here together and both Christianity and Islam have to change their attitudes. No religion remains static in its beliefs. The situation in India is often positive and Japan has a great religious tolerance so it is possible.

Cartoons which reinforce anti-Arab attitudes (I have not seen one which lampoons Indian or Indonesian or black African Muslims) only compound the difficulty.