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The Forum > Article Comments > Food for thought > Comments

Food for thought : Comments

By Walt Brasch, published 13/7/2006

America’s self-righteous language police want to make English an 'official' language.

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Perhaps Americans should migrate to countries throughout latin America en masse, and set up english speaking enclaves.

But i doubt these gringo's would be welcome.
Posted by Angelo, Thursday, 13 July 2006 12:30:57 PM
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I thought English was already the official language of the United States. What language does the US President give their State of the Union address in? What language does Congress use? Does anyone give speeches in Congress in any other language?

As to whether the US Parliament can stop individuals from using other languages is probably a matter for the Judiciary in interpreting the First Ammendment right to Freedom of Speech. This would not stop the publication of all government forms in English rather than in multiple languages.
Posted by Narcissist, Thursday, 13 July 2006 12:55:24 PM
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Dear Prof, what a load of bollocks. How do you get away with it? You must be even more amazed than I am.
Posted by Peter Abelard, Thursday, 13 July 2006 5:17:48 PM
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Reminds me of the great gag: "What would you get if you crossed Bill Clinton with George W.Bush?
A pimp with a speech impediment!"
Posted by Ponder, Thursday, 13 July 2006 6:46:53 PM
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I can't quite understand this. Is the writer objecting to English being made the official language because of the plethora of languages spoken in America? In that case he should be speaking about "anglicising" the language, not "americanising" it, as no such language as American exists any longer - the Spanish wiped it out.

Having an official language in no way inhibits other linguistic usage - it means only that a standardised language, primarily for the administration of the laws of the land, exists. In England itself the official language until the seventeenth century was Latin and before that it was Norman French. The language that Shakespeare wrote was a London construct and was a mixture mainly of Latin, Greek, French, Dutch, Saxon, Danish, Arabic, Greek, and Celtic. The tongue he grew up actually speaking would probably be incomprehensible to us now. This London dialect was spoken in the Inns of Chancellry and so was the language which King James chose for the first printed Bible. James himself probably spoke a mixture of French and Celtic.

That America, a country with a wide and diverse language base, has adopted this stance is simply in accordance with the fact that English is the primary language of law and commerce in a global community. PNG, which has 700 different languages, did the same thing and China, in which there are currently also geographical language bases, is in the process of doing the same thing now that it has taken its place in global commerce. This doesn't mean that people in PNG no longer speak Motu, or that Chinese no longer speak Mandarin.

RSA tried an eclectic approach and had 11 official languages which led to monumental stuff-ups including the time it took to sing the National anthem eleven different times before any sporting event!

Being strictly pedantic there is no such language as pure "English" - so one can hardly anglicise words like salsa or chilli for which there is no English equivalent: that is how our language has grown to encompass the largest vocabulary of any other tongue in the world.
Posted by Romany, Thursday, 13 July 2006 6:50:26 PM
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The précis for this article says that "America’s self-righteous language police want to make English an 'official' language". Is Professor Walt Brash aware that there are already language police in action in North America in the Canadian province of Quebec?

The original version of Quebec's Bill 101 (passed in 1974), barred all languages other than French on outdoor commercial signs. The law was amended in 1993, after the United Nations Human Rights Committee intervened, calling it a human-rights violation. The new law requires that French be "markedly predominant."

Bilingualism is tolerated on smaller signs, but anything as big as a sign on the side of a bus or a billboard must be entirely French.

It's not only the authorities who enforce Frenchness. The battle is also being fought on the streets by minor terrorists.

In the fall (autumn) of 2000, three coffee shops owned by a chain called Second Cup were firebombed. Earlier, a group calling itself the French Self-Defense Brigade warned that the cafes in the trendy Plateau Mont Royal district of Montreal violated "linguistic purity," and that the Second Cup was "in the line of fire."

Second Cup's crime - in the eyes of these neo-fascists - was that the company traded in Quebec under an English name.

Anyway, I wonder what the Professor would have to say about Quebec's language laws. Would he defend them on some half-baked politically-correct, culturally-relativist grounds?
Posted by Savage Pencil, Thursday, 13 July 2006 6:54:23 PM
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Wonder if he would feel the same if his name was Walter Smith.
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 13 July 2006 8:11:29 PM
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The US and Australia need one official language spoken well by everyone.When you have mastered the official language,then you can be multi- lingual to your heart's content.

A single language makes the economy run well and premotes social cohesion.People both here and in the US become marginalised if they don't have a good grasp of English.To be in the twilight existence of poorly grasping several languages,is no man's land.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 13 July 2006 10:22:35 PM
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Now let's see . . .
The Mexican was blonde, the waitress was brunette and the food was cold.
Maybe if you could start again Walt.
Writing was ment to be simple and to be understood. The brunette was . . . where was she sitting . . . south of the border.
Let's read this again. The waiter was, where was he?
Posted by GlenWriter, Thursday, 13 July 2006 10:25:21 PM
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This is hardly a new phenomenon, language is often manipulated to various ends.

Think about it - had anyone ever heard the term 'spider hole' before they pulled Saddam out of one?

I would have thought he was bad enough, but apparently the more common term 'fox-hole' just didn't sound evil enough for the likes of Hussein.

Similarly, you'll find that whenever a new law is passed limiting some kind of action, the names are always rosy sounding, like 'work choices', or in the US case, the 'Patriot Act'.

It's all a game as old as language itself, and it's up to the individual to work out the true meanings.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 14 July 2006 8:42:07 AM
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Hey ROMANY
don't worry mate.. you will get to recognize a 'leftist moron' more and more as you inhabit this forum :) The main symptom is:

Yell and scream about a 'symptom' and use that as a straw man with which to beat Conservatives to death, rather than looking at the real issue underlying the symptom and taking a responsible approach to it.

He is using the rediculous to disguise his real agenda and deflect our right to linguistic self rule.

There are many Mexicans waving Mexican flags in street marches, who are also carrying signs like "Reverse the invasion" etc...
Demographic changes in particular areas make it politically attractive to support such things as language change, but the immediate outcome is to alienate all English non spanish speakers in the city/town/state etc.

Ultimately its about world domination :) (do u like that ? :).. but not domination by Spanish speakers, by the moronic LEFT ! the international socialists etc... You have to dilute any sense of nationalism before you can take power. Language, nationalism and morality are 3 arrows in the quiver of 'takeover'.

How can you have international socialism while 'countries' don't want it ?

Dig deep enough in a Leftists brain and you will ultimately find this is what lies below. NO ethnic or national identity, NO borders, NO 'countries'. Just a great mass of glazed eyed robot proletarian drones.

I believe all signage in Australia should PROMINANTLY be in English, with perhaps some small other language if any.

Harping on about borrowed words and language police as the author did is just insulting us.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 14 July 2006 9:09:24 AM
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American English, British English, Canadian English, and Australian English are very different. We spell differently, use different idioms and rhetoric, use different irony, emphasis, and intonation.

The author makes a good point that the nature of the English language itself is unique. The diversity of our language is what makes it a world language, as a diverse living language so fabulous and dynamic.

There is no such thing as pure English anyway, it was always a hybrid between Latin, Greek, French, German, Sanskrit, Gaelic, Welsh, Pix, Angle, Saxon, Juke, Celt, and even some Viking. UK English in London is probably newer in its development and use than US English, as it has evolved faster with more diversity Internationally. It is more than just rhyming slang that makes UK English so colourful. Yes, I like the "u" letter in that last word.

American English is influenced from Afro-American, Latino-American Franco-American and Germanic-American influences. This gave it a dynamic of its own, in some ways fabulous in itself. We no longer have a Victorian Oscar Wilde view that: "American is not a language, it is a dialect". The UK in the 20th century has transcended this and has sprouted "dialects" of its own. So have we in Australia.

I disagree with the Quebecois in Canada, even if they speak French, they are similar rednecks imposing French on everyone in a their province of bilingual Canada. This has the same arrogance of the US imposing the US speaking English police. How stupid! The US English language is not at danger, if anything, it is taking over the world. And no, this is not a left or right wing conspiracy. That irrelevant tangent can only come from BOAZ who watches too much South Park and doesn't do enough empirical study.

The Mexicans can only enrich the English language. In a way, it brings us back to a Latin base: an older English version. The Mexicans have their own quirkiness, and this can only make the language thrive as a living masterpiece. US English as a language is not threatened by Spanish speaking Latinos.
Posted by saintfletcher, Friday, 14 July 2006 9:19:29 PM
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BOAZ the lefty would say:
Hey WALT.
Don’t worry mate, you’ll get to recognise a “right-wing moront” more and more as you inhabit this
forum (:
The main symptom is:
Yell and scream about a ‘symptom’ and use that as a straw man with which to beat thinkers to death, rather than looking at the real issue underlying the symptom and taking a responsible approach to it.

Boaz is using the redsunderthebed to disguise his real agenda and deflect our right to linguistic self rule.

There are many racists/fascists waving national flags in street marches, who are also carrying signs like “Reverse the invasion”.
Demographic changes in particular areas make it politically attractive to not support such things as language change, but the immediate outcome is to alienate all Spanish non English speakers in the city/town/state etc.

Ultimately its about world domination (: (do u like that ?( :.. but not domination by English speakers, by the moronic RIGHT ! the international controllers etc... You have to dilute any sense of multiculturalism before you can take power. Language, nationalism and morality are 3 arrows in the quiver of 'takeover'.

How can you have international domination while 'cultures/individuals’ don't want it ?

Dig deep enough in a Rightest brain and you will ultimately find this is what lies below. NO ethnic or cultural identity, NO individuality, NO countries. Just a great mass of glazed eyed robot proletarian drones (with no work choices).

I believe all signage in Australia should PROMINANTLY be in English, with as many other languages as people choose to display.

Intelligently writing about borrowed words and language use as the author did is just helping us understand the complexities of life in the USA. Thanks for that Walt.
Posted by Citas Ran, Freitag, 14 Juli 2006, (Zeit hier gefallen).
Posted by rancitas, Saturday, 15 July 2006 2:56:34 PM
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Rancitas statement that:
'I believe all signage in Australia should PROMINANTLY be in English, with as many other languages as people choose to display'

May have some validity, except, we know from past experience it's not 'the people' who get to 'choose' on such issues, rather its usually some lefty clique who control some bureaucracy which presumes to impose it from above (as was the case with "multiculturalism").

'The people'only come into it when forced to pay through taxation/rates for its upkeep.
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 15 July 2006 3:44:56 PM
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Boaz you sound like a born-again Nazi. Hitler used to go on about how the Internationalists and the Jews were going to take over the world. Then who tried to take over the world? The right-wing Hitler and his National Socialists. They then became Internationalists themselves albeit by expanding their borders rather than imagining them abolished.

The USA’s rulers aren’t exactly respecting national borders or innocent human life are they? They are no better than the terrorists – nay they are terrorist, they hold the world to ransom with their power (for instance, sanction that hurt Palestine's poeple because Hamas were elected), indiscriminate bombing that murders civilians and their nuclear arsenal.
To borrow from a rotten punk rocker (rather than a restive born-again Right winger).
There will always be hate in the far Right because they are of a hateful mindset. The trouble with people around the world is they always direct their hatred and anger onto what they perceive to be lower down the scale. The rednecks attack the left, the poor white attack the poorer blacks, the Aussies attack the Mossies rather than going for the jugular of the world’s controllers (corporations etc) who are keeping them down in the first place. We are all inferior scum in their eyes.

You, Boaz, call people morons. That is indicative of a person who feels that he is a superor human. You are so hypocritical it is funny.
Posted by rancitas, Saturday, 15 July 2006 4:06:23 PM
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Let's pretend that the writer is not north of the US border but Mexican and wrote this in Spanish.
It is written for the gullable in English.
Please write it in Italian, Spanish, Chinese, Greek and Japanese please so that Walt is separate from the dizzy self-righteous language police.
Then I will read it while I eat my humble pie and bloody sauce.
Let's pretend that the writer can get a message across to the non-gullable while the gullable swallow it.
Let's pretend that people can be hooked in the first paragraph without having to read half the page to find out where you are going.
Let's pretend it is for the Readers Digest instead of the readers indigestion.
Posted by GlenWriter, Saturday, 15 July 2006 8:18:34 PM
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As I read this article while sipping a glass of Merlot, I found this a quite entertaining read. No sip for you, Bush! It sounds to be too silly to be true…

My thoughts wandered to my ballroom dancing lessons- no more samba, rumba, salsa, tango, cha cha, polka for American dancers? No more Spanish guitar music?

What about speaking Italian in Little Italy? Or Chinese in Chinatown?

Then I treated myself to the thought that Bush better translate this new law in every language under the US sun…

Perhaps Bush just figures that it would be more rewarding to eavesdrop on people who speak in English.

But seriously, what would it really mean practically?
Cheapskating on education: no more foreign languages to be taught in schools?
Councils prohibited to put books and tapes in different languages on the shelves?
Getting fined when you bump your head and swear in a foreign language?
Pleaaaaaaaaaase!
Posted by Celivia, Sunday, 16 July 2006 12:37:01 AM
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Celivia,
Merlot is better than swallowing biodiesel. Just where are you slipping sipping in the bush?
Sorry I have differ. Pleaaaaaaaaaase is an English word but what ever pleases you is French to me.
Posted by GlenWriter, Sunday, 16 July 2006 1:46:29 AM
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I read somewhere that by the next millienium the main US language will be Hispanic.
We had our own thought/language police in Oz, we were told to drop sex {!} no more chairman or chair woman, chair person did the job. Blind became sight challenged, short or tall became height challenged. The changes only lasted as long as the galahs that tried to push them on us.
The we reverted back to sex [hurrah!] and fact.
Language has evolved and will go on doing just that but there is no doubt a common language makes everything easier. English has always changed and absorbed much of other languages. Maybe that's what makes it universal.
Posted by mickijo, Sunday, 16 July 2006 2:26:12 PM
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@Horus, your post is ambiguous. Signage in Australia for the deaf is in the language of Auslan. This is a different language to sign language in the US for their deaf people. It was not a language developed by these "left wing" bogey-men. Is this what you are talking about? Do you know what you are talking about?

If you are talking about road signs being dictated by "the left" in the RTA, the various councils, petitions, or whatever residents decide, then that doesn't make sense either. Do you mean to say that Tollway exists read "turn the other left" rather than "turn right" because the left-wing don't like the word "right"? That is absurd. Signage is minimal for practical reasons and has little room for political biass.

Should we say "Gentlemen" and "ladies" in toilets again? Is that what you are on about rather than "men" and "women"? How Victorian of you. Or are we being too left wing in the Airport when we say "Welcome to Sydney" when a real business person would like to say "take out your wallet and spend all your money, or go home! Especially if you are brown of middle eastern appearance".

Or are you talking about Aboriginal words being used to describe places like "Ulluru" rather than "Ayers Rock"? They actually use both signs.

Compared to other countries, Australian signs are very Anglo, more so than even England and there is a lack of signs in the languages of our tourists. Tourism is a very important industry for the Australian economy. This means being friendly as well as just taking their money, and grunting at them when they don't know English. They notice rudeness and send back negative messages to their countries of origin when people treat them like this. They then go to Canada instead, as Australia is seen as too rude.

We have an economy to protect. Adapt to the real world and we will all benefit.
Posted by saintfletcher, Monday, 17 July 2006 12:29:10 AM
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