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The Forum > Article Comments > Forgotten people in paradise > Comments

Forgotten people in paradise : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 10/7/2006

There are glaring omissions in the tourist brochures for this tropical paradise.

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What is new nothing,as this is an ongoing dont care a damn by the very people that grounded these people into the way they live in todays Australia.left them to live and rot away from utter despair and no help in any form,now all of a sudden these people are a problem,no the problem is white society that wanted it to happen,die out or be absorbed into the world of the white colonists,see anyway that suits them,this is the truth
Posted by KAROOSON, Monday, 10 July 2006 4:18:26 PM
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Long before Seneca, the Indians had panca sila – the five moral bases necessary to calm the mind and develop concentration, as a step towards developing wisdom. The sila involve abstention from activities which unbalance the mind – broadly, killing, stealing, lying, sexual misconduct and taking intoxicants. The latter was critical – break that precept, and you were more likely to break the others too. Unfortunately our society takes too little account of this fifth precept.
Posted by Faustino, Monday, 10 July 2006 7:00:34 PM
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Congratulations Stephen on your award. More strength to your arm! I admire your work. More please.
Posted by FrankGol, Tuesday, 11 July 2006 11:33:04 AM
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Paying people in rum, in the Rum Corp era, is a well documented fact of the early history of the colonists/invaders.

It is surprising that in a society so heavily reliant on alcohol, there is intollerance of certain people who drink to excess.

What about little Johnny Howards grog bill.

5 Nov 03 news.com.au in an article about the cost of the BBQ for George Bush noted:

Officials also revealed that the alcohol bill for The Lodge and Kirribilli House had hit $133,837 since July 1999 – including $6500 in the past four months
Posted by Aka, Tuesday, 11 July 2006 1:14:34 PM
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The Qld. state government has recently imposed alcohol restrictions on Palm Island, overriding the grog restrictions that the democratically elected council had imposed.

Here is an issues paper prepared by the Palm Island council on the new grog laws.

http://www.kalkadoon.org/index.php/2006/07/02/palm-island-alcohol-management-plan-amp-an-issues-paper-prepared-by-the-palm-island-aboriginal-shire-council/

The states grog laws directly contradict the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody reccommendations that alcoholism be seen as a health issue, not a criminal one.

Here is a report on research into another way of dealing with Alcoholism
http://www.kalkadoon.org/index.php/2006/01/20/what-are-the-alternatives-to-to-qlds-grog-laws/

Mr. Hagan's opening quote "Drunkenness doesn’t create vices, but it brings them to the fore - so said Roman philosopher and poet, Seneca (c. 4 BC-AD 65)." is very relvent if that wisdom is similarly applied to social problems as well as vices.

Alcoholism is not the primary cause of trauma in Aboriginal, or any other, communities, though in secondary ways it inflames things, same as vices,. Alcoholism is primarily a symptom of trauma.

To focus on alcohol will not lead to healing. Focussing on healing trauma will, amongst many other consequences, reduce the rate of alcohol abuse.

To focus on the alcohol, as Beatties Palm Island prohibition regime does, increases trauma and the chronic anxiety of unresolved trauma. It criminalises people causing a range of other trauma instead of solving problems.
Posted by King Canute, Tuesday, 11 July 2006 2:18:28 PM
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Stephen Hagan has a rather disrespectful attitude toward the female security person and the 'cops' who have to deal with drunk and violent people on a daily basis. It is typical that people who don't have regular close contact with dangerous, disgusting drunks have so much sympathy for the offenders and contempt for the people whose unenviable task is to deal with them. Would Mr Hagan's attitude have changed if he had been hit in the face with a bottle?
Posted by citizen, Tuesday, 11 July 2006 4:04:58 PM
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citizen,

I take it you struggled to comprehend why Mr Hagan was disrepectful toward the female security guard? Let me explain, she stated, to an aboriginal man, that aboriginal people were violent, dirty scumbags whenever they drank (presumably thinking he was not aboriginal). Come to think of it, I don't really comprehend why he didn't show her the respect she deserved, capisce?

As to the police, have you lived in the NT? If not, you would be in for a suprise at the total antipathy between aboriginal people here and them. Not so much for arresting people who have committed offences, but for inciting drunks to threaten or attempt to strike them so they can arrest them for assault police, etc.

And for your information, I have run pubs in the gulf, not an apologist for drunks, be they white or black and yes, I have been struck numerous times (including with bottles). However, I do not run around with a gun goading people to respond so I can hurt them. That is cowardice & corrupt. You want evidence, watch the NTSC in the next week.

Inshallah

2 bob
Posted by 2bob, Tuesday, 11 July 2006 11:37:46 PM
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@ 2Bob
A civilised society requires certain standards of behaviour. People who are violent, obnoxious, or sexually abuse children need to be dealt with by police for the safety of the law abiding, and to maintain those standards. No exceptions. I don't know why you assume the female security guard didn't recognise the writer of the article as an aboriginal person but consider the way you would relate to somebody who is clean and sober compared to someone dirty and dead drunk. It wouldn't matter if the person was aboriginal or not. making excuses for people based on race just continues the problem.
Posted by citizen, Wednesday, 12 July 2006 6:47:25 PM
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Mate,

If she made rascist comments to an aboriginal male, or to me for that matter, I would sit her on her butt. When the NT feels that it is alright for a police officer to bash a juvenile after taking them out in the bush for that purpose, and they feel it is alright for Katherine Police to forcibly enter a house (sans warrant) grab a 14 year old girl, supposedly for an assault they did not witness, then take her to the watch house, strip search her (with male officers present), and leave her in a cell for several hours naked, I think there are major problems with the rule of law up here (Ombudsman (NT) Annual Report Case Studies).

Do you think that may have some bearing on our murder rate being 3x the National average? Do you think that may have some effect on the rate of drunkeness, property crimes? Course not, let's give some more power to the Police, in order to prevent drunk people walking around. They have homes, 600 km away, that they share with 20 other people, just send them back there?

You know, you'd have to be a cop wouldnt ya.

Inshallah

2 bob
Posted by 2bob, Wednesday, 12 July 2006 10:33:45 PM
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citizen,
you have spoken of "dirty and drunk" as the same thing as "violent, obnoxious, or sexually abuse children" Why are they the same thing in your mind?

Do you believe that all Aborigines are dirty, drunk, violent, obnoxious child abusers? I can understand from recent media where this idea might have come from, but this is called stereotyping and it is obvioulsly a problem of the security guard too. - Aborigines dont wear underwear and they have aids, hepatitus etc.

From Mr Hagans story the woman was unconscious so we don't know what she was like, or why she was unconscious.

Mr. Hagan did not make any excuses, he commented on the scars on one womens faces and their premature aging. . He has not denied anything of the horror in some Aboriginal people's lives. He has just recognised inalienable human dignity, even if the human is lying on the ground. This is a sad situation, the persons humanity is the reason for the sadness. Treating people like stray dogs to be rounded up and put in the pound is not something a loving society would do.
Posted by King Canute, Wednesday, 12 July 2006 10:34:24 PM
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A fine piece. The surprise in the ABS figures is the measure of the need for more sustained public attention to the issues surrounding the welfare of indigenous people.
Posted by Binda, Thursday, 13 July 2006 11:15:10 AM
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I used to think just like you guys until I went to help out on an aboriginal community in NT and saw the way they treated each other. I was disgusted, and had to confront my own preconcieved ideas. But noone should be so uncivilzed, whatever excuse is offerred. Women punching semi-conscious old men in the face and neglected children going hungry because their parents had spent all the money on booze.
The facts are that quite a few babies have gonorrhoea, murder is commonplace, schools and medical facilities are routinely destroyed, and wife-bashing the norm. That isn't a racist viewpoint it is simply the fact of the matter. Apologist policies have only made the situation worse so why not face facts, forget about the 'racist' jibes and start thinking about aborigines as humans like the other members of out fabulously cosmopolitan population so some progress can be made. After all the aboriginal people are the ones who are suffering most from the chaos. Of course cops are most often brutes but I'm sure they are further brutalised by dealing with people who have no respect for themselves or their 'brothers and sisters'. But anyway, if you read the article again the guy was just bragging about having 'the first lady' put her arm around him, and the anonymous face-down woman was just someone he could explot to flesh out the story.
Posted by citizen, Thursday, 13 July 2006 6:51:19 PM
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Citizen,

I do believe you are serious, well, in that instance I apologise, I have spent too much time arguing with neo-fascists to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, obviously a serious indictment of my cynicism.

I will therefore approach the issue on that basis.

If governmental aides, policy adviser's & senior public servant's would step back and take a serious look at the effects of current (and prior) policy on the situation they would be forced to acknowledge their failure.

The difficulty is, that being educated, the governmental adviser's prefer to deal with other educated (or semi-educated) person's, who normally do not come from the remote communities on which they are found. THese semi-professional agents, generally with no historical, social or familial ties to the communities, are preferred to those from the area, when it comes to administrating the councils etc.

Being educated they are aware (at a basic level) of how policy & politics work, and use the system to their own benefit. Much of the problems inherent upon the majority of communities in the NT derive from pre-existing mismanagement, missapropriation and fraud, by these parties or their families, which prevents them acting in any way to allow a true picture to become evident (ie. they spend their entire time covering up past mistakes).

I have suggested numerous times that a complete audit of all remote & regional communities is needed, with criminal charges, and jail sentences (preventing re-employment in prescribed positions) for persons found to have committed crimes. Unfortunately, the political muscle of the persons with vested interests (or the most to fear) in the electorates of our current politicians (NT) appears to prevent any serious attempt to fix the problems.

Until a complete accounting is made of the past mistakes, and the nepotism and corruption is addressed, I see no way out of the present situation.

Inshallah

2 bob
Posted by 2bob, Thursday, 13 July 2006 11:48:17 PM
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Hi Citizen,

I repeat, I do not hear anyone, especially Aboriginal commentators, deny the sort of brutality that you describe. Aboriginal women in particular, but men too, have been speaking out about the issues and demanding realistic responses including relevent police involvement but their pleas have landed on deaf ears, more importantly their strategies for crisis support and long term healing have been ignored.

Australia is now in a whipped up state of hysteria about the issue because it was journalists who responded to the people's pleas instead of politicians and funding authorities. Unfortunately media producers have recognised the sensational media value of the situation and run with it. Similarly the federal government has used the hysteria to develop a profile on indigenous issues. But what solutions are arising from all this concern? Where is this hysteria going?

Per capita, fewer Aboriginal people drink than the mainstream yet the public perception is that most Aboriginal people are Alcoholics. This is for 2 reasons, 1/the media hysteria focusing on drunken Aborigines and 2/ Aborigines who drink often do so in public spaces so the public, most of whom have never had a serious conversation with an Aboriginal person, build their perceptions of what they see in public.
As to the cells of violence that exist in many Aboriginal communities such as some Alice springs town camps, this is a similar centralisation of the issue (like public space) that has now, through the media become public. These places are dumping grounds. In terms of town planning and community infrastructure they have been designed as dog pounds. They are refugee camps because the people have had their economic base, family inheritence and their home taken from them. Those who drink themselves to stupor to avoid their life realities live together as there is nowhere else to go.
Not all Aboriginal society is like this and people living like that are often just going through a "phase" and sooner or later many who survive "wake up".
Stereotyping does not improve Aboriginal living conditions nor does it facilitate the "waking up" and healing.
Posted by King Canute, Friday, 14 July 2006 11:09:52 AM
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MEDIA ALERT

Calls for a Fair Trial on the Back of Survey Results Branding
Townsville as
Racist

Friday 14th July 2006

Aborigines can no longer receive a fair trial in Townsville according
to survey results to be released today that show a majority of residents
would be unable to expel racist attitudes in court.

In the survey, commissioned by Sydney-based law firm, Levitt Robinson,
over half of Townsville residents claimed they could not disregard negative
beliefs held about Aborigines, even if instructed by a judge in a courtroom
setting.

This social insight brings to light a segregated city rife with racist
views with only one in ten Townsville residents having a positive attitude
towards Aboriginal people in the community.

The survey was conducted during June and July 2006 to demonstrate the
need for the Lex Wotton Palm Island Riots case to be moved from a schedule
hearing in Townsville to Brisbane to ensure a fair and just trial.

“These results prove that the public attitudes towards Aborigines in
North Queensland are hostile and prejudiced. How can an Aboriginal person be
tried fairly by a Townsville jury?” said Stewart Levitt, leading Sydney
lawyer and human rights advocate.

Levitt believes the catalyst for the Palm Island Riots is not acknowledged
by the wider Townsville community with only one in four surveyed correctly
attributing the cause of events to a death in custody.

“Social issues abound within the North Queensland Aboriginal community
and only by building confidence in the legal system can Aborigines have
faith that justice will be done,” said Levitt.

MORE STATISTICS:
* Nine in ten Townsville residents knew of the Palm Island Riots, but
only 5% hold a positive attitude towards Aborigines from Palm Island

* Close to 40% of those surveyed had been affected by anti-social
behaviour with three quarters of those incidents involving an Aboriginal or
Torres Strait Islander
:
* The survey, commissioned by Levitt Robinson Solicitors, was conducted
by the AEC Group and interviewed 400 Townsville residents during June and July
2006
Posted by King Canute, Friday, 14 July 2006 1:40:41 PM
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I think the basis of the problem concerning aboriginal people has most to do with the corrupt aboriginal leaders who showed themselves to be just as self-serving as anyone else with power to abuse, and that exhausted the compassion that most other Australians had. On top of that the aboriginal 'leaders' were protected from prosecution because they had become part of the lawyer/poitician class that always protects itself. The other side was the 'enlightened left' who did not have the courage the face facts when those facts didn't fit in with their moral high ground position. If you can't be honest your high moral ground becomes a swamp.
One good example of how skewed the entire 'idigenous' thing has been is that ATSIC included aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders despite the fact they were completely different groups of people, their only commonality being a very good tan. Humans categorised based on their skin colour! My personal view is that the rate of miscegenation, which is much higher compared to Afro-americans in the USA, is the way toward liberation from the mis-guided glorification of primitive practices that have no relevance in the modern world beyond entertaining tourists. Aborigines trapped in aborigine-only communities bring each other down. If a person tries to get ahead they are called "coconuts", black on the outside but white on the inside. People being treated for how they behave rather than the colour of their skin is maybe not a dream.
Posted by citizen, Friday, 14 July 2006 11:20:20 PM
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Lex Wooten's case arising from the Palm Island riot was moved from Townsville to Brisbane yesterday because the Townsville court agreed that he could not get a fair jury in Townsville.
Posted by King Canute, Saturday, 15 July 2006 6:45:40 PM
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It is a sad reflexion of the ignorance of Tony Abbott of Tribal Aboriginal people in Central Australia that he has come out with the comment that it would be advantagous to limit the time they spend mourning bereavements and attending ancient and traditional CULTURAL AND RELIGIOUS ceremonies . They would interfere with the government's employment programs.
I suggest if Abbott's plans are implimented he could well find himself in a fair bit of trouble for these reasons :
1. There are Australian and International laws preventing RACIAL discrimination.
2. There are Australian and International laws against RELIGIOUS discrimination .
3. Over a period of time this would have GENOCIDAL IMPACTS , as Aboriginal people have their culture based on Oral Tradition which is passed on by the PHYSICAL re-enactment of their history and culture.
ANY move by the Howard Government to limit or make difficult the passing on of their culture would be akin to Hitler burning the books of the Jews during the Second World War.
Posted by kartiya, Saturday, 15 July 2006 10:21:46 PM
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It is unfortunate to learn about issues such as what experienced first hand. There are trends from Australian society that I am familiar with. The Aboriginal population as a whole does not drink as much as the white Australian’s. The stereotype for the drunken Aborigine is because those of the population that do drink do so at hazardous levels. Once more, this is unfortunate and possibly an issue for communities to look into.
Posted by Epithemeos, Thursday, 3 August 2006 7:34:17 AM
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