The reason they stop people growing those lady fingure ones is that they are hardy and grow just about anywhere. So they tell the public its because od disease. the reason they stopped people having a couple of chooks in the back yard for fresh eggs is the same.
That is to control the industries. They want you to pay top prices instead of walking in your back yard. Its called Tax!
Wake up Australia

Mirko, imported bananas may or may not carry a disease risk but professer's of law do not. I propose we open the door to third world professer's of law prepared to work at half your rate

Mirko,

I also love bananas.

Its possible that the phillipines could control diseases in export bananas, but would it happen?

My understanding is that corruption is widespread in the phillipines. Surely it would be a simple matter to bribe inspectors thus invalidating any controls.

Also look at the huge costs of eradicating other pests which may be accidentally brought in, similar to the fire ant.

By the way, avocadoes are almost as easy as bananas to prepare if you cross hatch with a knife before spooning out.

No extra charge for culinary tips!

I want I want is nice, but what is wrong with just accepting that yes we have no bananas? There used to be a time when if fruit and veg were not in season then you didn't eat them. They are not a food staple, you won't die if you don't get them, so why risk it?

Who is going to be up in arms when something is acccidentally imported that is just as nasty as the cane toad and wipes out important agricultural crops? Or we find out we are eating produce sprayed with banned over here but not over there pesticides/ fungicides etc. As for trusting foreign paperwork stating the contrary, having worked overseas, I don't think it's worth the paper it's written on. I for one would rather be bananaless and safe than sorry. No I don't grow them but I have had a plant in a past back yard, and those will beat the commercial ones hands down.

Peanut butter stays on the bread just as well as bananas IMHO, and why not use the opportunity to explore more cullinary delights for lunch, I'm sure the scope of your cullinary creativity is wider than just bananas! Oh and the scoring of the Avocados works a treat, try it teamed up with smoked salmon... mmmm Salmon and Avocado....I'm off to make a sandwich!

Good article - western governments that preach free trade, but refuse to open their doors to exports from poor countries that could benefit most from the growth which trade creates, are both hypocritical and unethical. And many of Australia’s so-called quarantine restrictions on imports are nothing more than back door protectionism.

I take issue with one line in the article, however. Mirko says “…we … have an obligation to distribute our wealth to those in greatest need.” Trade lawyers may approach trade negotiations as a zero sum game, in which the benefits to poor countries from access to our markets are won at our expense. But most economists would argue that trade is a positive sum game – we would benefit no less than the exporting countries from opening our doors to their exports. Think of all those cheap bananas (and shoes, shirts, cars, avocadoes…)

Call me old fashioned, but I think that Australia should not import foods,
not bananas from Phillippines or Fiji,
or potato fries from Belgium and Holland
or greenbeans from China.

Being truly antedeluvian I don't think that Australia should export jobs like
trams should be manufactured in Victoria
trains should be manafactured in Dandenong
Australian tax Office programmers should be Australians working on computers in Australia, not India as at present
bank software and personal data should be maintained in Australia by australians.

The Australians whose jobs have gone when the jobs are exported overseas, don't get another job, they just rot on the dole or their spouses income or their savings. ACTU estimates that 55% of retrenched workers never work again, 10% get better jobs and the rest are worse off with part time, lower paid or unskilled work.

Billie, it's true that trade competition can cause some jobs to disappear in the short run, but more (and usually better) jobs are created in the long run.

In Australia we have reduced protectionism sharply over the past 15-20 years (pockets of banana protectionsim notwithstanding). Currently we also have the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s (including a sharp decline in long-term unemployment), and the highest ever proportion of the adult population in work. Real wages are rising.

Workers are better off in a competitive and dynamic economy than a protected and static one, and most smart union leaders understand this.

Billie, why are you importing your spelling from other cultures then? 'Antediluvian' is way better than 'antedeluvian' ;-)

Rhian glad you point out that Australia enjoys the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years. Just a minor detail. . . . .

30 years ago the Australian Bureau of Statistics calculated the unemployment rate by counting the number of people who received unemployment benefits. If you wanted a job you walked around all the factories in the area until you had a job. It took one Friday morning to get 3 job offers

Nowadays, the Australian Bureau of Statistics conducts a survey and an individual is considered to be employed if the person has 1 hour of paid or unpaid work in the survey period and is not studying.

So we aren't comparing apples with apples. And I find it odious that people say that there is low unemployment because I have experienced both times and trust me, I work harder and more persistently to find a job that just isn't there. More insidiously, while people believe these specious unemployment statistics they are blinded to the fact that Australian society is sliding down a slippery slope to large gaps between the haves and the seriously downtrodden and the whole of society will suffer as a result.

Pedant I knew someone out there had a spell checker.

Mirko sorry I have hijacked your forum.

Rhian and Pedant,

or should I just address this to one of you?

What a stupid political lot of bull you posted.

You idiot. You say> We are loosing jobs to gain better jobs.

More people work part time and there are thousands doing center link and other courses that they have no intention of following through.

Thats how your team play it.
But you know that already dont you.
This is so you can say> there are less unemployed.

We have no skillied labour because there has been no aprentices taken on because of you lot.

Billie posted what we all thought was a fair go tell it like it is comment. You cant say anything other than something about his spelling which by the way shames you not Billie.

Our forgeign debt is a discrace. Our companies have all but left Australia.

Even our parks and world hertigae properties are under hocked.

Apart from cole if you look at Australia you wont see much else being exported.
Oh unless you count the millions of poor suffering animals that Vaile Howard Downer through the National Party and The government export along with our jobs ALIVE, So desperate are they to say they export SOMETING.

Dont tell me let me guess your part of the new family first christian group who represent the church.

Yeh the good Christians who could not care less about animal cruelty and sending our kids jobs overeas.

Tell you something >

Billie looks good to us.!

Agree Billie.How would Mirko feel if we brought graduates from India to work for 25% of his salary?He'd be singing,"Yes we have no bananas" in a shrill tone.

We have no responsibility to third world countries unless they,like China,do something about their population growth.The bleeding hearts are too comfortable in their secure unionised Govt jobs and pontificate about injustices that they are partially responsible for.

Well intentioned people went third world countries giving them better food technology and drugs to fight disease,but no mention was made of contraception.

It does make you wonder about the agenda of do gooders,who push this illogical barrow shame,at the expense of ordinary Australians who are just surviving themselves.

If the individuals in other nations can produce similar bananas at a lower cost with various diseases, then how important is it for us to protect framers from this disease? I think there is another, more potent disease in this country. It's ugly name is, inefficency.

I am all for a measured opening up of our country to the global marketplace. Comparative advantage does lead to an increase in our standard of living and trade with third world countries is the best way for us to help them advance their standard of living which, by any measure of humanity, we must do.

In this I am probably in the same paddock as Mirko but what irks me about Mirko’s article is his choice of bananas to illustrate his ‘unfairness of global trade’.

There are two economies in Australia.
A domestic economy exists where workers are protected from overseas competition, where industries are protected by distance, where ‘bananas’ are protected by barriers, where industries benefit from Government procurement and all manner of means.
Then there is the economy, import competing/exporting industries, trading subject to the vagaries of the global marketplace, currency fluctuations, low labour costs and foreign Government subsidies.
It is this economy that is bearing the costs of delivering our higher standard of living and the feel good factor of helping the third world countries.

Mirko, to satisfy his demand for a higher standard of living and to help him sleep at night knowing that we are helping a third world country, has selected the banana industry to be moved from the domestic economy to the harsher global economy.
It was an easy decision for him as it comes at no cost to himself as he is firmly entrenched in the domestic economy and after all, they are only farmers.
Surely, Mirko, as a beneficiary should be happy for his taxes to be used to compensate the bananas growers and underwrite the risk of disease to the Australian crop.

Bloody likely.

Billie, you are wrong about the ABS changing its definitions of unemployed from benefit claimants to survey respondents. This website lists all the changes to the ABS labour force methodology since 1960. Benefits claimants were never the key unemployment measure, and none of the changes are significant enough to make a time series comparison invalid.

http://abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DOSSbyTopic/139689E1A84FE4F0CA256BD00028B0E5?OpenDocument

Wendy, you are right to say that more people work part time. This is because more people want to work part time, especially women with children, and students. Only about one in ten part-timers would prefer full-time work. Are you saying the other 88% should be prevented working their preferred hours? Again, the facts are easily checked at the ABS:

http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/3FA9F970FD304C87CA257139000E3CB5/$File/62650_sep 2005.pdf [998 kb]

Wendy, would you prefer to back to the 1960s and 1970s, when women were routinely required to leave work when they got married, and part-time employment was rarely available for those who wanted it? When apprenticeships were the standard route for kids leaving school, because less than 1 in 20 went to Uni? When overseas travel was a luxury only the rich afforded, and resources were a much higher percentage of exports than they are today? If so, I bet the new family first Christian group that you so dislike is far closer to your socially conservative and economically protectionist views on this issue than to mine.

Goeff, your point about some of us being more exposed to globalised reality than others is well-made. I for one am happy for compensation and adjustment assistance to go to potential losers from reductions in trade barriers and similar reforms, and for us to share in underwriting the risks, as we will all undoubtably share in the benefits.

Rhian I can remember the ABS and Centrelink being embarassed in Federal Parliament when it was reported that the ABS had reported less people as unemployed than Centrelink was paying benefits to. Now I don't think this was due to widespread rorting of our social welfare, I think it was due to the manner in which unemployment is calculated. And from memory I think that people in full time employment was calculated and part time was a seperate figure

There is a real problem when unemployment is defined as 1 hour paid or unpaid in the survey period. Someone who is doing voluntary work to gain enough experience to get a paid job is really UNEMPLOYED. When I was a volunteer driver I still thought of myself as unemployed although the ABS considered me employed.

There are a lot of people in part time work who want more work.
The women at Spotlight who used to work 40 hours per week and were forced to sign AWAs now get 3 hours work per week, Thats a hell of a drop in income, I do hope Newstart is understanding about their predicament.

In the same region where the Spotlight campaign started there is a nursing home that hires satff for 3 shifts a fortnight assuming that a person can pay rent, keep car on the road, put food on table and support children for about $450. Newsflash: welfare payments to same household are more than that. Methinks that employers have an obligation to ensure their employees can live in a standard of frugal comfort.

"I like bananas because they have no bones".
Neither do they, the cultivated varieties, have seeds.
That makes the world banana industry a very shaky one: all are clones, and do not have the diversity needed to provide survivors in the face of a virulent disease outbreak. And reports do exist of banana-diseases on the march across the planet.
Australia does have two species of native banana, in the North Queensland rainforests, and they do have seeds. Although I have wandered across them, I have not tried the fruit. From what I have read, they are horribly crunchy and unappealing due to a heavy cargo of seeds.
If Mirko Bagarac wants cheap bananas in his time and to the devil with tomorrow, yes, import bananas. But if he would rather that the world industry maintains a secure foothold from which his desired edible bananas might persist and in future make a comeback on the world stage - the best prospects lie in Australia's continuance of tight quarantine and exclusion of banana imports.
As was noted in the article, Australia already has had one fright. It was an outbreak of Black Sigatoga disease at Tully. That seems, to date, to have been brought under control. It has been a matter of good fortune as well as good management.
There are better ways of assisting developing countries than by lowering even further our already devalued safeguards against exotic diseases.

Billie

It is not surprising that there are differences between the benefit claimant count and the number of unemployed as defined by the ABS, as they are measuring different things. But you argued that a change in the definition of unemployment from claimants to survey respondents means that comparisons over time are not valid, and this is plainly wrong.

I have not argued that the labour market is ideal – I agree that some people struggle to find work, some want longer (or shorter) hours, wages in some sectors are low, and some suffer job insecurity.

However, these problems are not new. Most objective measures of labour market performance – real wages growth, unemployment and under-employment rates, employment levels – are better now than they have been in a generation. I believe that the reason they have improved is because the economy has become more flexible and efficient. I support tariff reductions and other economic reforms because they are good for workers and consumers, whereas many protectionist arguments boil down to business welfare.

There is one positive result of the wrath of Cyclone Larry, i.e. if Kim Beazley becomes Prime Minister we cannot become a "Banana Republic".

The scary thing is that if the Coalition don't iron out the unfair anomolies in their IR reforms,we could be addressing Prime Minister Beazley in the not too distant future.

The price around our way is still in the $10/kilo range, some three times its previous price. Who is getting the extra six bucks? It is obviously a windfall for those unaffected by the cyclone, since they wouldn't get anywhere near that for their product before.

Is the fortunate (i.e. non-cyclone-affected) grower getting the benefit? Or is it the retailer, making the most of the laws of supply and demand, cashing in on high demand and low supply? We hear enough about the hardships experienced by those affected by the weather, but nothing at all about those who are benefitting from the inflated prices.

In my view there is absolutely no justification for protecting our banana industry. Regardless of "assisting developing countries", there is no justification in asking the Australian consumer to pay over the odds for a commodity as simple and basic as a banana. Who is protecting what from whom? Does anyone know what the price of a free-market banana would be?

I am separating out the quarantine issue from the economic; we should obviously protect ourselves from disease. However I get the strong impression that it is being used as a smokescreen, in the same way as do-gooders think in terms of assistance, rather than trade.

Whatever, I'd love to know who is getting financial benefit from the shortage, and whether they are channelling any of their windfall (sorry!) profits to the devastated growers.

Rhain

You bet Ya I would prefer to go back to putting kids to learn a bloody trade. The ones that wish to go to night uni can like we did. They can work to pay their own fees like we did.

As for your faith in government figures u are very silly to follow their figures.

Why dont you really read some of Billys posts and try to learn something.

As for your comment on Family First It does not warrant an answer but if you think its ok for a so called church based group to have NO INTEREST in the barbaric cruelty to our animals in the live export trade while stealing work from Australia than it is you who belong in their camp along with The National Party and the Low Life government.

Beazsley is not going anywhere while he has Jack lake as Adviser either and sits on his arse regarding the live export issue as well.

So that Leaves As they say.>
A FEW GOOD MEN

Like Billie

The threat of disease is very real. If black sigatoga had struck at the moment, when there has been just 8 days without rain in NQ since cyclone Larry, it would have been virtually uncontrollable.

Selfishness of southern city folk is unbelievable. Mirko do you know how hard the average banana worker works. The pay is basic and they work in the rain, mud and tropical heat. A bunch of bananas can weigh 60 to 80 kg and they are dropped onto the shoulders of workers when the tree is cut. The worker then has to carry the bunch on their shoulders to the trailer in the aforementioned rain, mud or heat. They encounter snakes, spiders and rats. Leptospirosis is always a risk.

Your selfish desire to import bananas will put these very hard working men and women's income at risk.

The farmers whose crop did survive Larry are getting the premium price for their bananas, but there were not too many who have a crop.

Rather than push for imports, be patient as bananas will be back to a more affordable price in a few months. However, when I drove through the Innisfail area yesterday, a lot of homes still have tarps on their roofs. I suspect the banana crop will recover a lot faster than the community that Larry decimated.

I am not a banana grower or worker but I know the risk of importing disease is very real.

And bannanas is not the half of this miserable sick trade in what we call money that is the root cause of so much pain, damage and destruction of our world....

Anyone heard of copper? well its all around us but we cant see it. In every wire that supplies electricity in our houses, to every little electrical gadget that makes our life's easier to computers, cars to planes, phones to video conference..I think I have got the importance of it across.

Now over the last thirty years, the world demand for copper (Cu) has gone through the roof. Right, now for us budding economist to apply common reason to reasonably say "Cripes, the copper prices would have gone through the roof'...BUT nope, for 1975 on it crashed and stayed that way since.

How? well it seems that somebody has stockpiled vast quantities of copper and releases them into the market to control its prices. Who produce most of the copper? some of the poorest third world countries on earth whom cant reduce production or not allowed to, to let the stockpile be exhausted.

Who produces most of these finished electronic items....Yep. How much do they cost...x10, x100 value of the copper in it....So some evil genius figured out about copper futures and and an effective way to manipulate it for getting gross amount of the green stuff...money baby.

Welcome to the world we live in...where we are made to not think too much of the complete circle to things we do, just here is a nice tv at a price you can afford.. take it home and enjoy. Dont worry about the 1000 children whom will die of starvation in the country that produced the copper because the price of copper is kept so low and we dont care so why should you, just give me your green stuff and take the tv. NO

Oh.... make sure you keep believing what you read in the corporate media that copper prices is the result of demand and supply..

Sam
Ps; some figures quoted are fictional but the principle holds true

The economic illiterates in this thread opposed to free trade (for reasons other than health, contamination concerns, etc.) should educate themselves on the basics, primarily comparative advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

It's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of fact versus fallacy.

So GT,our $400 billion balance of payments deficit is also fiction?Unbridled free trade has a lot of negatives when our very small manufacturing sector is rapidly evaporating.

How are we going to pay our way when we run out of resources,coal and gas to flog?We are locking in cheap prices with China to secure our market.Not very clever when you consider that the price of energy will only rise above the CPI due to increased demand.

Comparative Advantage looks good on paper,but the reality is vastly different.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying Arjay, but free trade is good for everyone. That is fact. Any opposition to free trade comes from a misunderstanding of it. To simplify it, imagine if we as individuals couldn't trade between each other. We would have to each be a jack of all trades, wasting enourmous amounts of effort doing things we don't specialise in. With what logic can you justify this fact suddenly ending at the border?

Comparative advantage is not merely a theory that only works "on paper", it is an actual economic phenomenon.

As far as a trade "deficit" is concerned, there is nothing wrong with having one unless it is a result of loose monetary policy.

I'm willing to refute any opposition to free trade, but in the end you don't have to believe me - look in to it yourself.

Wendy,

Most banana farmers will try to keep prices high by deliberately slowing return to full production following the devastation of Cyclone Larry in March. The ministry and the Smart State government are urging farmers to avoid producing a deluge of cheap fruit by staggering their return to full production. The price of bananas has almost quadrupled since the cyclone, with some consumers paying upwards of $11kg. Nth-Qld banana industry forecasted return to normal around Nov, but already Banana Council of Australia urginged its members to avoid releasing too many bananas into the market at once, for fear of causing 'collapse' in the price.

'If the entire Nth-Qld crop came back in six to nine months, up to 20 million cartons of fruit could flood the market'. Queensland Primary Industries Minister Tim Mulherin told farmers to carefuly plan their return to business. Mr Mulherin said it was critical that growers staggered production to avoid a glut. Banana growers warned, prices were set to go even higher. Althought the fruit has already gone from a grocery staple to luxury item. Australian Banana Growers Council chief Tony Heidrich said 'it was simply a case of supply and demand'. Mr Heidrich didn't expect 'significant quantities' to come out of Nth-Qld until at least Nov. As NSW procuction was set to drop over winter, 'so the price might well go up', he said.

Courier Mail Phil Bartsch further reported on May 17th, 2006, that in these circumstances Dave Perry has became the bargain king of bananas. Mr Perry who runs a 4ha plantation at Burringbar in northern NSW, has been charging $2kg on Sunday mornings at Chandler's market in south-east Brisbane (all being sold by 8am). "Everybody say I should put the price up", said Mr Perry. Known to customers as 'Dave the Banana Man'. "I'm not that interested in making a whole heaps of money. Just want to keep my regular customers. That's the name of the game, because I know in six months time when Nth-Qld comes back on line, the price is going to drop".

Why personally attack the author? I think most of you would find that universities are the most multicultural institutions in the country. Mirco would have his job because he is skilled, not because it is protected against educators from other countries. If you are worried about your job moving overseas, move out of the textile industry, and into one that is sensible, before industry protection (which I, and everyone else in the country, have to pay for) is removed. I don’t think I should pay higher taxes so we have a viable footwear industry. We are much better of since the liberalisation of the economy, and will continue to be made better off as the liberalisation continues. If you like regulation, move to India, if you like protection for agricultural industries, move to the US, and pay six times as much for sugar as we do. Vested interests poison economies and no one seems to notice.

Leo
Thanks for you interesting comments and info.

Good On Mr Perry the the Bannana Man.
Does anybody remember the little man.

Well this country was built by them.

The government say they dont control the big business in Australia but they have taken the power and common sense out of the bush.

What happend is terribly but exuse me there are other ares that grow crops that were not effected.

This contolling the crops to suit the government is getting worse.

I think we need to take a closer look and the farmers need to tell the white shoe guys to back off.
Every Child should be taught how to grow vegetables in schools and care for chooks and other education.

Wendy,

Incredibly, some still hanging-out for a banana (costing $3 each), in a Smart-State. Known for the practises of autocracy retribution ..."cross the party line and you are out"... Which so ironically became a very meaningful in my circumstances of being suspended with my arms wrestled-back for-168-hours, without any means of reply to the malicious finger pointing at me, and so-caustically emitted condemnation across-the-board (tantamount to browbeating) ... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4591#47671

Speaking of the-sour-grapes ... or on-a-more-serious note a propos decimated grape-growers, forced to-plough into-the-ground their freshly harvested produce due to the grape-glut in this country, where "to-appease" ravaged farmers, our Smart State primary industries ministry okayed in turn highly inflated price of grapes at $5kg to consumer. Still having audacity to-brag with-a-straight chutzpah face that it was "simply-a-case of supply-and-demand". If not for throttled-monopoly-market by the invisible-hand, as-a-result our local bananas continue to surge in price at $15kg for the elite conglomerate, whose staple-diet seems to-be compromised without the exotic banana.

Having said that, I must disagree at this point with-a-haunting-me quote: "Good Health Is Not Generally a Question of Money"! Which was actually stated by highly respected otherwise Dr Sandra Cabot, renowned for her best-selling 'Liver Cleansing Diet' and a last week conducted telethon: 'Your Health Is Your Greatest Asset'. What surely sounds like a common-sense-logic, if not for the fact that without the sufficient monetary means in the 21st century, such slogan becomes a hollow rhetoric. One only have to glance at the lack of access to the vital health-care in a Smart-State by general public.

Compounded by the escalating cost of fresh fruit-n-vegies in Brisbane. Where solely Kerry Packer's calibre to afford red-capsicums at $7kg, thanks to the creed-of-greed churned monopoly. Yet a charismatic captain of the Smart State still having chutzpah to stage his multimillion-dollar adverts extravaganza. Canvassed in a cavalier fashion in lieu of the purported "action-taken" against the pandemic obesity, just as Smart State govt lied moreover about the "turned-corner" pattern in the health-care delivery. What have been utterly insulting to the commonsense intelligence of conscientious citizenry.

"Half the world is on a diet while the other half is starving." This line from Brisbane punk band the Disables album 'Nuthin' for No One' is a question that is on a lot of peoples' minds. Mirko, like these punks and other posters, rightly sees that there is something very wrong with some peoples' attitudes and global politics.

Mirko says that there are bananas falling off trees overseas. Why not encourage trade between these countries and third-world countries where people are really starving?

Mirko kinda answers this when he says: "All deals struck as part of this pact are on the basis of negotiation, not principle." This is unbridled capitalism, this is "free" enterprise. Starvation is the result.

There is a saying: " When you speak of capitalism there is seldom any mention of ethics." ('Death in the Locker Room.')

On the other hand, the countries forking out two dollars for a cow are probably socialist inclined and running up a hugh debt that will later see people starve.

Politics, especially unprincipled politics, shieet me to tears (like most other people?).

Of course, some utilitarians, like Mirko, might mention ethics to further their own political agenda or arguments.