The number of people on this forum that identify Iemma and his mates and the NSW ALP as corrupt is interesting. Is it a groundswell of people wanting this area of politics to be cleaned up?

NSW is the result of more than thirty years of corruption in the ALP. I watched our Branch Secretary rig the books before a preselection where a Head Office functionary that nobody had heard of suddenly was handed one of the safest seats in NSW. When we compared notes, nobody we knew had actually voted for him in the preselection – yet there he was!

Yes, KAEP, immigrants have stacked the branches, but that ploy has been successful because people resigned from the party, leaving the field to Iemma and his mates, who knew enough to work the system to their own advantage. The corrupt politics of Italy, Greece, Vietnam and Lebanon had given their parents excellent training in takeover technique.

These children of immigrants see nothing wrong in looking after their own – after all, that is why they got into politics. Suburban development is dominated by immigrant builders, estate agents, etc; they keep up the pressure for more immigration so the awful houses they build will be bought, and they donate the money to keep the political parties going. So planning laws are changed to loosen controls on developers; outrageously non-compliant DAs are approved. It has been happening quietly for years, Carr’s government was propped up by this system – but it has become really obvious now that he has gone and the “boys” have taken over.

We need both sides to get a fright. We need to educate people to ignore the party system, to vote only for candidates they believe to be honest, both in state and federal elections.

The good people in the ALP are swamped by the others. If people will be selective and refuse to vote the party line, then we might have a chance of getting a decent Government, and breaking the power of corruption.

Cleo7,

Thanks for the personal insight.

Given the truth of what you say it is hard to understand how a FAIRLY run Morgan poll would turn up a Labor win at the March 2007 NSW state elections.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/polls-put-iemma-back-in-race/2006/06/28/1151174269485.html

Do you have any knowledge of who commissions these polls and what if any bias or corruption exists in their execution?

I have no knowledge of Morgan or Labor's involvement with them. I do know these polls can be biased and quite blatantly so. A recent Australia wide immigration poll some days ago:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Immigrants-a-good-influence-on-Australia/2006/06/06/1149359734392.html

took subjects all over Australia geographically when demographically around 90% of the 140,000 per year immigrant intake is stuffed into Sydney and about the Gold Coast. This makes the poll meaningless for a start. But if that wasn't enough, the poll master who should have been unbiased was boasting how this result showed Australia's big heartedness and readiness to accept more migrants.
Sure Right!

I don't think anyone should blame "the people" for the governance we have. Australians aren't apathetic. Most are decent, and I've seen "ordinary people" show extraordinary courage in the face of bullying officialdom.

What they lack though, is power. They can speak truthfully and stand for right ... but they won't necessarily win in the present climate.
And Peter, I think what most of us "ordinary people" want to know is:
HOW do we demand better?

Voting works collectively, it's effective for broadscale change, but for those on the margins, without voting clout ... HOW do they demand better?
Also, the malaise extends well beyond politics. The public service, I understand, now is so heavily politicised and remote from public censure that it may truly be called a bureaucracy.

So, the smart new Ageing Minister Santo Santoro appeared on TV mid-March and appealed to the public to communicate with him about aged care. I did so. Proposition, specific example, evidence attached.
Three months later, I have my reply - from the assistant secretary of the quality management branch (the branch I had complained about). And it is simply one and a third A4 pages of patronising pap. It fails even to acknowledge my complaint.

Now, anyone can scroll down to page 100-or-so of the February Community Services Senate Estimates Hansard report, where they will find the Opposition Spokeswoman quizzing the same assistant secretary (in the presence of the Minister)not only on the same problem I sought to raise with them - but the very same example.

In other words, they all know - government, opposition and department - that there are some serious flaws in the administration of aged care and some obvious conflicts of interest in the accreditation agency.
Yet, they choose not to act (look closely, and you will find they form a fairly cosy clique, this aged care lot).
And, should we humble peasants dare to speak, they will simply treat us like ... well, peasants.
Why?
Because they can!

So, short of revolution ... HOW do we demand better?

Lucy

Lucy, I think that a very large portion of the populace IS essentially apathetic.

From this apathy comes the lack of knowledge and input on political or governance matters and hence the ability for government, and those with very strong interests such as big business, to prevail.

Apathy and decency are very different things. Yes, most of us are decent, but most of us just simply prefer to leave governing to the pollies and bureaucrats.

There are really two aspects to apathy – one in which people do their thing and let others do the managerial stuff for the country or state or shire, and one where people just don’t give a hoot because they are not interested in the greater good for the nation or quality of life. Both prevail strongly.

People tend to get active over ‘backyard’ issues. That is, issues which affect them pretty directly. Nimbyism is by no means restricted to narrow-minded greenies.

So with this background, how do those with passion make things happen? How DO we demand better?

And it is at this point I have to say that I don’t bloody know. As past president of Sustainable Population Australia (North Queensland branch) for ten years, and of the North Queensland Conservation Council and the Wildlife Preservation Society of Queensland (undisclosed NQ branch), state candidate for the Qld Greens, senior cum principal scientist with a government department for 6 years, avid writer or letters to the editor and occasional articles for 15 years, etc, etc, I don’t fluffing well know!!

And doesn’t it piss me off !! !!

“And, should we humble peasants dare to speak, they will simply treat us like ... well, peasants. Why? Because they can! “

And they can because of overwhelming apathy.

Compulsory voting guaranties the percentage & compulsory preferential voting guaranties the majority of votes roll back to the two major parties .

Just take note at the next election campaign state or federal doesn't matter , You'll notice it's pretty much the same as the last one was , flyers in the letter box or under the door all telling us they'll fix crime & hospital & school & roads & bla & bla & bla , On the tv it'll be the others are bad & you'll be miserable but with us everything will be wounderfull with rainbows & enviroment & stuff .

Many of us won't be fooled by the spiel but many many more will be . You only have to raise the topic of a pending election with your work collegues over lunch to see how effective the tv & news paper campaigns are as the responses you get are exactly what has been broadcast or printed & these issues are spoken of with real concern . This demonsrtates how effective these mass media campaigns are , as if you had raised the subject of politics to the same audience over lunch a month ealier the responce would likely be one of disinterest & cirtainly none of the now important matters would even be thought of .

With non compulsory voting only the candidate who is seen to be honest & responsive will be rewarded , This happens now a bit but the influence & effect of news editors & journalists on how a candidate is portryed is enhanced with compulsory voting .

The safe seat thing as mentioned ealier in this thread , To me safe seat translates to 'we dont have to work hard there' , Just another compulsory voting consequence .

Compulsory voting encourages smoke & mirrors & compulsory preferential voting is just plain dirty .

Anyway just look at who strongly insists on retaining the compulsory vote , It's the we know what's best for you control freaks .

The only revoloution we need is to fair up our electoral system .

Australians who do not have a preeminent obligation to another nation (Ludwig), and who do not just opportunistically suck up all the advantages Australian citizenship offers, are NOT apathetic. We were taught long ago that all races are created equal and we have welcomed immigrants accordingly. Do not equate our strength with simple mindedness and apathy. We are still a majority despite all the constitutionally illegal gerrymanders that stem from organised-branch-and-seat-stacking. Fiji and China both let their foreign immigration overtake their electoral systems and eventually had a REVOLUTION to expel foreigners. Fiji is still judged harshly for this but as we look at the Euro-gerrymander overtaking our island nation it is inciumbent upon us to see that Fiji was right-to-do. Personally I believe Australia has caught the problem in plenty of time for constitutional processes to allow Federal police to investigate electoral gerrymanders and prosecute organising offenders. As I understand it, gerrymandering is ILLEGAL.

And NO, we don't need to eliminate compulsory voting. That would make it easier to gerrymander electorates as votes would become a commodity and could be bought by corporate executives. Only a shill couldn't see that all we need do is outlaw-the-preferences-system.

The only-reason-Australian-politics-has-become-DEBASED is because of the CRIMINAL use of pressure-cooker-immigration into-SYDNEY-and-the-GOLD-COAST as a TOOL-for-economic-growth. The high-cost-of-living, corruption, foul air, lack of water, unfriendly 'we-are-better-than you' neighbours, no police,dentists,doctors or trains when you need them are causing suffering and that-is-a-CRIME. Sooner or later Federal politicians will be judged for this. Australians MUST have the right to demand EQUAL-and-FAIR-placement-of-immigrants across Australia and not just in Sydney and Gold coast so they, their family, their rights, their standard of living and their vote are not diluted and debased.

But as more immigrants-are-achieving-powerful-government-positions in this country and displaying-a-total-disregard-for-racial-equality by stacking sensitive-demographic-electorates and party-branches with their own-particular-race, the pressure is building for a firm-hand to STOP criminal-immigration-strategies. Ordinary people need breathing space to develop in a more peaceful manner with a right to quiet enjoyment of a clean, green Australia and not a gutted-burnt-out-disillutioned-investment with double-digit-interest-rates.

True-progress-is-not-being-FUNNELLED on to the edge of a precipice and being told-to-Advance-Australia-Fair!