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The Forum > Article Comments > Jesus was married? So what? > Comments

Jesus was married? So what? : Comments

By David Castles, published 14/6/2006

Dan Brown’s literary meanderings are causing pain to the theological cognoscenti.

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Sorry Philo I assumed everybody knows that only 7 letters of Paul are attributed to him.
I will cite a few of the main sources:-

B.M.Metzger [1987] 90ff
Maintains that seven letters are so similar that they were probably have a common origin
They all have a common prologue and maintain Paul to be a true apostle and are anti-Jewish
Eusebius himself doubts the authenticity of Jude and James epistles.
Discusses 2nd Century opposition to Paul
Marcion was the true successor to Paul
"Clumsy" non-Paul works wree added in the 4th and 5th centuries
.
W. Barnstone [1984],652
Writes about "the third heaven" and the Ascent of Paul

G. Ludemann [1995] 198-9
Calls the fake letters "foolhardy".
Says that of the thirteen letters only 7 are genuine.
Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians,Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians & Philemon
Says the rest have been composed by others in the apostles name

G.A. Wells [1975], 17
Claims opponents of (a Gnostic) Paul tampered with his letters, e.g. Irenaeus and Tellurian

I. Wilson [1984] 154
Argues that whoever wrote Timothy and Titus it wasn't Paul. Quotes results of computer tests.

E.Pagels [1975] ,5
Valentian Gnostics cite only a subset of work attributed to Paul.

I could go on but I suggest you do a search for yourself and find a reputable scholar who claims the Pastorals are genuine.

I never claimed that Paul's writing in Greek attested to his gnosticism.
Many Christians would agree about the gnostic nature of Paul. I have met some.
You quote Acts. Nobody claims Paul wrote Acts therefore anything Acts claims about Paul's theology is in doubt and heresay evidence.

Sorry you had an accident. Great to hear about your understanding of Job. I have no understanding of Job. Enlighten us.
Posted by Priscillian, Tuesday, 18 July 2006 11:17:07 AM
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Pricillian,
My principle of understanding isn't based in who wrote the ancient text, but what's its message and what difference will it make to my life and to society?

The book of Job is one such, many authors have made contributions to its text over many years. i.e ch 28 in the text we have was written after the Jews included vowels into their language as the name for God mentioned is Adonay. Though much of the text reflects paleo Hebrew returnees from post exile period, and over 300 words are from the Edomite language. It's staged drama expressing the conflict between polytheism and monotheism. The basis of the idea came from Babylonian sourses. The greatest contrast exists between Elihu's praise of El in Chapters 32 - 37 compared to the of praise of YHWH who gave the wild beasts their character and nurtures them whom the gnostics attributed to the god El of the Earth.

It is a debate between Gnostic counsellors and Job a monotheist. Unfortunately the conflict of the text is lost if one reads the Septuagint because all the names for God are translated assuming one Greek word for God "Theo".

Job converted from the worship of Elohim[plural] to worship of one[Aloah] God of Edom. When he suffered the curses as described in the Hamurrabi law his counsellors accuse him of abandoning El, the god of the Earth. Someone has added the term the satan in the 2opening chapters, and refers to El the administrator of the Earth. However Job denies El as the cause of his suffering and attributes it totally to YHWH [one God in Israel]. The opening is polytheistic and characterises Jobs original faith. His Grandfather Abraham and his cousin Timon upheld the universe was governed by one God, and Job had converted to recognise YHWH gave and took life and the cellestrial God would prove he was also terrestrial by appearing in the Earth.

Catholics and Muslims are basically gnostic because of their belief in the Devil and their view of the mystical conception that the body of Jesus was not natural.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 18 July 2006 8:01:22 PM
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Ghoussss,

1. “jews-and-muslem-didn’t-believe-in-Jesus-Christ-as-Messiah.-That’s-what-I-know-is-the-basic-differences-between-muslem-and-Christianity,-as-they-have-the-exact-same-bible-of-old-testaments.-The-other-muslem-book-that-they-used-together-with-the-old-testament-is-the-analogy-of-new-testament-for-Christianity. “

Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah – they-are-still-waiting. Muslims call Jesus the Messiah but to them they have a completely different concept of “WHO” Jesus really is. To them He is just another prophet (and not God)– one of many thousands of prophets that came before their own prophet Mohammad.

The Qur’an tells many stories also found in the bible – BUT their stories are distorted; historically and theologically incorrect. There-is-no-comparison-possible-between-thei- book-the-Qur’an-or-their-other-book-(I-think-you-meant-the-Hadith) and-the-Old-and-New-Testaments-of-the-bible. Different-religion-all-together.

2. “This-is-1-thing,-apart-from-that,-with-all-your-beliefs,-comments-and-everything,-would-you-accuse-of-all-religion-in-this-earth-is-wrong-except-Christianity?
To answer this and for you to accept the answer – you need to know “WHO” God is and “WHAT” was His intentions and plans for us humans.
All religions are man-made. They have laws and rules for everything. Religious people believe that if they practice the rules and follow these laws God will accept them one day when they die.

Christianity-is-not-a-Religion-because-it-has-no-rules-and-laws-to-follow-toplease-God. God-Himself-became-a-human-sacrifice-for-us – to-save-us.-Not-people-ffering-sacrifices-to-Him-to-be-accepted-by-Him.

3. “…50%-of-this-world-would-be-perish-and-it’s-their-fault-for-not-choosing-“the-one-and-only-way-but-free-choice?”
It-doesn’t-have-to-make-“human”-sense…”
NO it-doesn’t-make-human-sense – God in His love has provided the way out for us. No human intelligence can comprehend His love for us.

And I think it is much more than 50% of people who are perishing daily. This is because of Satan twisting people’s minds with “religion” – telling them that “it doesn’t make sense” – (In-other-words-they think-Jesus-died-for-nothing).

4. “So-people-that-know-OT,-and-believe-in them,-perish-before-the-arrival-of-Jesus-Christ-in-this-world-as-saviour?-Since-before-him,-there-is-no-salvation,-is-there?”

The way to salvation is belief in the real God and believe Hid promises. In the Old Testament time people were saved by believing in God’s plan for them, and that the Messiah is coming to save them. They had “faith” in God for their salvation.
When we look at God now we see the cross of Jesus and we know that He has fulfilled His promises. Same “faith” different historical times.

5. If-you-take-out-Christianity-completely,-then-there-is-no-knowledge-of-after-life.-You-might-go-to-heaven-or-reincarnate-or-you-might-perish.-No-one-knows.-It-is-a-crap-prospect,-maybe.

It is not just Christianity that believes in the after life. However it is ONLY through what Christianity offers that there is a much better life after this life on earth. No other religion or belief system offers the same prospect. Christians call it “the good news” or “gospel” for this reason – it is the best news that any human being can hear.
Posted by coach, Thursday, 20 July 2006 10:06:29 AM
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