"United Nations’ Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination"

HAH !

What a joke.

A report in the papers this morning said : "The UN is rife with nepotism and corruption"

and then there is the "International Whaling Commission"

There are fears that it will be over-run by 'pro-whaling' interests... duh.. and the UN is not subject continually to such things ?

So, before referring to the UN charter on this or that.... its better to REJECT the UN and dis-associate ourselves and national interest from it.

THEN.. we might be able to think clearly about the real crux of such issues as per the topic. We don't need the UN, we don't need LABOR we don't need THE COALITION..NOR do we need the Gay Greens or the Debacle Democrats, we need some serious anthropological analysis of the cultural/legal conflicts which look at all sides and come up with a reasonable conclusion.

When the 'whites' could only speak about 'rule of law' after this incident, I hung my head in bewilderment.

In this country ,particularly with regard to multi culture, we must have ONE law and that is Australian law that applies to all who live in this country.
We cannot make exceptions for tribal law because we have an enormous mix of tribes, cultures.It is vital that everyone knows the law, that they must obey the law with no exemptions otherwise we will end up with anarchy and worse.
Our laws have evolved and they are good. Anyone who does not want to live by Australian law should be shown the way out immediately.

James McConvill: “Sometimes you have to help those who cannot help themselves.”

This was the paternalistic attitude of the Queensland Government in 1865. The Industrial and Reformatory Schools Act was established specifically for children under fifteen who were neglected or convicted of an offence. A neglected child was defined as any child who wandered about; frequented any public place; slept in the open air; had no home or settled place of abode; dwelt with a reputed thief or drunkard; was supported wholly or in part by charity; or any child born of an aboriginal or half-caste mother.

Now replace ‘an aboriginal or half-cast mother’ with ‘lawyer parents’; such that any child under fifteen and born of a lawyer parent could be arrested and removed from their parents and placed into an industrial or reform school, which serves to process the explicitly despised lawyer characteristics out of the child. Not quite as ineradicable as aboriginality, but consider the long-term psychological impact such a process would have on your children, in a purely hypothetical sense?

Peter Beatties new grog laws will be imposed on Palm Island from next Monday.

The Palm Island community is the only one in Queensland to have the grog laws imposed unilaterally. All the others were in consultation with a local justice group who agreed to and signed off on the restrictions. Some are pretty liberal such as Cherbourg which basically outlines various places on the community where you are not alowed to drink.
However on Palm Island there has been no such agreement. In fact the state has caused mass confusion by setting up a social justice group which has informed the council in drawing up it’s own grog restrictions. But this justice group has not been set up to conform to the grog laws statutory regulations. So the government in it’s wisdom has set up a new justice group, or at least it is trying to, in order to legitimise the un-negotiated impositions which start on Monday. Meanwhile the council, who administers the current grog restrictions has foreshadowed a legal challenge to the new grog laws.
2 grog laws, 2 justice groups and court case on the horizon, and still just petty tokenistic funding for such things as detox and rehab programs, is a fine example of our governments competency in indigenous affairs.
This would not be so ridiculous if there was a substantial diference of approach between the existing council laws and the new police laws. But they are essentially the same, except the police laws have massive penalities compared to the council’s, worse than pot and smack laws, which is an extreme antithesis to the Royal commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody reccomendations which said alcoholism should be dealt with as a health, not criminal issue.

So those of you in the Qld. A.L.P., think of the Palm Islanders as you sip your fine wine because as of Monday they will be criminalised for doing exactly that.

This link includes the Palm Island Council’s grog laws, voted for by a democratically elected shire council and the States new imposed laws
http://www.mcmc.qld.gov.au/community/search/palm_island.php

Grog laws are nothing new, I can remember when I worked in a Kimberly store years ago there was a law called "The Dog Act" and anyone who caused problems with drunkenness or non payment of debts was placed on the 'dog act'
Those named were nearly all white, aboriginals were not permitted alcohol but Islanders and those of mixed race [providing they were not natives under the act]could be named and their names were displayed in public. No person named was allowed to purchase grog. Anyone knowingly supplying grog could be imprisoned.
No one used the word 'racist' it was simply a fact of life.

It seems it's open season on racism against blackfellas, now that non-Indigenous Australia has finally decided that it's time to debate the finer points of the issues of violence and disadvantage in Indigenous communities. Many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been trying to raise and address the problems facing Indigenous communities for decades but have we listened to them? Nope. Instead, we've now decided it's time for every self-professed non-Indigenous expert on Indigenous affairs to spout forth their ill-informed and thinly veiled racist proposals on the causes of and best responses to the complex and deep-seated disadvantage and abuse experienced by many Indigenous people. Which in James McConvill's case involves starting with some broad sweeping statements about 'the Aboriginal community' choosing to sit at the bottom of the ladder of civilisation and ending with a most constructive solution - namely to breach the Racial Discrimination Act in order to 'help those who cannot help themselves'.

For someone with a PhD in law, McConvill is demonstrably ignorant in regards to both Australian and international law. The UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, the federal Racial Discrimination Act and the various state anti-discrimination laws relating to racial discrimination and vilification all allow for 'special measures' that have the objective of supporting the advancement of members of a group affected by historic disadvantage or discrimination to help them have access to the same human rights as the rest of the community. That's the kind of equality, James, which is about what is best for Indigenous communities in terms of the recognition of basic human rights as determined by Indigenous people themselves, not the kind of 'best' you're talking about - which led to governments and missionaries taking Indigenous kids from their families and communities and denying them basic education and opportunities in life, not to mention abusing and traumatising them

McConvill also states that what Aboriginal women and children have faced under the guise of customary law is worse than racial discrimination - has he actually asked any Aboriginal women about this? Has he read anything that has been written by Aboriginal women on the subject of violence, abuse and customary law? (Audrey Bolger, Judy Atkinson, Hannah McGlade, Megan Davis, Larissa Behrendt, just to name a few?) Has he listened to what they have proposed as solutions to the problems facing Indigenous communities?

Of course he hasn't, because they don't match the twisted logic that leads him to emphatically support the Howard Government's carryon that removing customary law from having any place in sentencing will actually provide a solution to such complex and systemic experiences of disadvantage and abuse. Bet all the blackfellas in this country feel so much better already knowing James McConvill is on the case.

Okay, so I might be being a little naive here, but shouldn't the law of the land apply to all people of the land regardless of their skin colour, religious beliefs or gender ...... :-(

"the law of the land apply to all people of the land regardless of their skin colour, religious beliefs or gender"

Yes it should but it must also take into consideration the lack of historical protection that the laws also justified and protected.
Indeed its historical inconsistency to create a law for all.

We are not all equal before the law, many are more equal than others.

Excellent post ruthmcc. This is not the first time this author has pursued this line of argument, and he obviously possesses the comprehension and insight of a one-eyed goat.

I only hope he is reading the posts like yours in order to awaken his mind from its seemingly immortal ignorance

After seeing the Lateline programme last night one can quite easily despair and say there is no hope. Aboriginals will self distruct no matter what is done to help them.

One thing is certain, we cannot allow the abuse of women and children to continue. Wherever possible the abusive perpetrators have to be removed and if all else fails the women and children placed where they are safe.

This morning, it occured to me that there has to be some success stories as well as the bad ones. There has to be some communities that are functional and doing better than others, and some individuals that are doing better. Let us concentrate on these, no matter how few, and find out what works, with the view of replication.

Noel Pearson is a person that comes to mind. I see him as a practical, level headed bloke and would like to hear his views about disfunctional communities. Maybe one person does not have the answer, but a combination of ideas to suit differing situations may work.

We have to get away from the blame game and the no hope thoughts and centre on the things that have some promise of working.

I'm not quite ready to wipe the aboriginals off as a lost cause just yet and would like to see some positive comments from those more knowledgeable than me. Perhaps Rainier and his mates would like to contribute.

Mal Brough expects extended Aboriginal families to live in harmony in isolated communities where there is little hope. Maybe we should ask him to invite a dozen of his relatives to share his house to demonstrate how an extended family should operate under one roof.Then we could place bets on how long before the neighbours call the police. Better still, set up a Big Brother style house in one of the Aboriginal communities to see where the problems lie.

I don't think Mal Brough set up the isolated communities. He is trying to get some common sense into what appears to be an impassable barrier.
I saw the Lateline programme , just for once Tony Jones was not bringing up the 'stolen generations' and treaties, apologies ect,ect.
The Elder lady said it all. The word now is 'the lost generations'.
Left to themselves, the Aboriginals will self destruct ably helped by the men who should be sent far away so that they cannot taint the young anymore.
If paternalism will give the women and children any hope, then the sooner it is applied the better.
And if aboriginal men want to keep the present situation going then one can only ponder why.

Today, in "The Australian" is a story about one functional aboriginal community. It is Mapoon in western Cape York and well worth a look at by posters on this site.

They boast a 95% school attendence, which is really good and very low crime rate. They have businesses and work,and no grog.

There has to be more successes around and these need pointing out to the Minister so that we learn from them. Does anyone on OLO know of other functional communities?

The present situation in some Aboriginal communities is terrible and must be changed .
Perhaps if the media concentrated a bit on the positive side of things, it could show how to run a community or good teenagers or positive parenting.
Instead the media just loves showing the worst of everyone and everywhere,one would think that there is no scope for optimism, no hope for improvement,there is only a dark side . And that is so wrong ,there are ways that can help if enough goodwill is shown and determination applied.
There is always hope. It just needs publicity.

Mickjo, agree with you, but sometimes its not so much the negative versus the positive. This is the media selling bad news stories which inevitably creates a desire in readership for 'a positive' side.

Some of the positive things people in commmunities want are often simply things we take for granted. Like a good school and teachers, good housing etcetera. For every Murdoch media driven Aboriginal disaster stories there are thousands of very good things happening in Aboriginal communities on a daily basis. But this doesn't sell newspapers or is interesting to shock jocks and news editors of television.

Have now heard of two more "good" aboriginal communities. Cooktown and Derby, but no details. Another which is 300k N/West of Alice, but cannot recall or pronounce the name. Aparently, night patrols by ladies has made and enormous difference to amount of drunks and violence.

Was impressed with Sue Gordon and Marcia Langton, interviewed last night on 'Lateline'. They agree that law and order is paramount but need to address underlining issues as well.

I care little about the label action is given. Self Management or Paternalism does not matter as long as it is of benefit to communities.

Rainier, I would really like to hear about the 'good things happening' that you refered to. I am just a Joe Blow but I will get the good things I hear about into the Ministers office.

I wonder if a couple of desperate Aboriginal families and their children
sailed up to our parliament and asked for "asylum" , would it shake the dissidents who appear to concentrate only on overseas people but conveniently manage to overlook all Australian born people who are in need?
Aboriginals, homeless youth and aged,mentally ill, there are thousands out there who need someone to stand up for them.
Those people in parliament are simply grandstanding, if they were sincere they would fix things in their own country before parading their 'caring ' natures.
I hope Mal Brough does not give up but he is not going to get much help or encouragement from state leaders.

I am curious to know where people think aborigines who do not like 'Australian Law' should be moved to?

Imagine that someone came into your home with guns, took everything you owned, removed your children, told you what you could and could not do and killed or imprisoned anyone who disputed the rule of their law - do you really think you should just obey their law or get out?