Oliver, do you think that China will become an economic giant before the oil runs out? What is her future if the oil does run out?

Sage:

In theory China needs to be only one-fifth as productive as the US, to achieve America's GDP. But that assumes the involvement of China's 1.3 billion people. Chinese leadership according to the new is aware the cities are taking off but that Western provinces are being left behind. Whether China overall or just the big cities develop will have a major impact on the consumprion of resources.

However:

- China has plenty of big cities
- And moving resources, say, coal, arount a big country requires infrastructure.

So, I guess the answer is China will consume large quantities of oil and other resources, it develops.

Even, back in the 1980s it was suggest that the signicant development of China would create acid rain as far as away as the Black Forrest in Germany. Likewise, many products use oil (tyres), so development will require high oil consumption.

Personally, I feel that China should pace its development:

- To try and resolve the question you raise in the affirmative
- To allow its leadership to guide the country's globalisation
without making the political mistakes that Germany made in the
nineteenth century and Japan made last century.

There are several other inputs too. The US-Chinese relationship, spectulation on real estate (China is aware), the goverance of Banking (changing slowly) and potential tension between city entrepreneural-oligarchs and provincial mayors (this could be the hard one).

The staged growth of China would I think, see her become an economic superpower before the oil runs out.

In a globalised world perhaps we all need to demote passions related to the nation state, as we look towards a global community. Not only China, all of us. We have/have had tribes, garden cultures, city-states, kings & queens, temple-states, theist-states and, recently, nation-states. With globalisation it is jumbled together, and, we are not all equally prepared to make transitions.

Bazz:

You are correct flat maps do create distortions.

Canada's neighbour is the US. Our neighbour are the Kiwis. Australia is a continent plus islands at the foot of South East Asia. We can be seen to be a "European tansplant" with strongest ties elsewhere. I think this perhaps worries ASEAN more than China.

Oz, as you problably know, established links with China via academics/Whitlam before Nixon. This would give us some Brownie points, methinks.

Through much of her history China has been an economic power. She also has not had a protracted Dark Ages.

Australia is a European Power in the Pacific region.
It is not in the Australian interest to be in the forefront of the Timor conflict.We should have a minor role as Portugese is the European Language adopted by the new nation,and protocol dictates that Portugal,should have the major role and cost.
Australia has also given the corrupt Marxist Government vast territories of the Timor Sea to finance the personal wealth of a few
Portugese/Timorese,and groups such as the Marxist controlled Australian Democrats are actively supporting the reinstatement of the Fretilin Government.
The Australian government is in danger of becoming a Portugese style of Empire,i.e. Interbreeding with the locals then making these people the government,such as the former colonies of Angola and Mozambique.

Yes Brock, "Australia has also given the corrupt Marxist Government vast territories of the Timor Sea to finance the personal wealth of a few". Must be because of all the Marxists in Canberra.

Naturally we shouldn't encourage Interbreeding, it might lead to idiots taking charge of our government.

Good day Leigh,

So for you, a person threatened with physical violence can be treated as a person of dire need but not a person threatened with death through lacking water, food or disease? Economic refugees properly speaking are not simply looking for a better deal, they want a deal of any kind that will let them live. Also, to live as a human being.

There are also environmentally threatened persons - some government builds a dam and the locals are submerged! Desertification causes population shifts across Africa and in China. Those people will die if not allowed to cross borders.

While physical threats of death because of political factionalism and fanaticism is clear evidence of priority when determining refugee status, this is more because it can be clearly shown and does not usually deal with masses of people - but there are instances. For example Vietnam with it’s abandonment by the US and the fleeing of the South Vietnamese.

“A refugee is a refugee - political or economic.“

We (of the Humanist Movement) will also reiterate that a group with its own identity needs general acclaim from its neighbours and needs recognition in its differences. That group needs respect for its culture. It certainly does not benefit from negative discrimination. What is needed is positive discrimination - discrimination being one of our higher faculties.

In the best case that group could be independent of other’s rule if indeed it can look after itself but it is well noted that many urges for independence and autonomy are resulting from an individual’s selfish motives or that of another group that wants to dominate.

In the absolutely best case - and this is where this dialogue about Australia’s relations to the Asia-Pacific vis a vis any other region is a most important topic - that group (or country) can actively assist its neighbours. We say the people of Australia are well set to do that and it is a wonderful thing to do, as a nation and personally. It liberates.

Tony Henderson