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The Forum > Article Comments > Reconciliation spirit is vital > Comments

Reconciliation spirit is vital : Comments

By Greg Barns and Howard Glenn, published 1/6/2006

Howard's refusal to say 'sorry' has exacerbated continuing deep distrust of European culture.

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"There is, in Aboriginal Australia, a continuing deep distrust of the European culture." Now turn that around.
There is, in Australia, a continuing deep distrust of the Aboriginal culture. Everything is ultimately exused and sheeted back to whitey. It is distrustful, even grubby and servile to always bang on about the government and resources and contrition when what is lacking very often is dignity. And that is not something taken away, that is thrown away and no amount of sorry-saying will restore it. We can say sorry but it will not do the one thing needed. If we do not respect Aborigines, just as they do not respect themselves, saying sorry is all vanity at best and a softening up for more shake down at worst. No amount of pity or rightious indignation or money doled out by whitey will restore the one thing Aborigines need and whithout which there is no hope of change. Self-respect cannot be a government initiative
Posted by Peter Abelard, Thursday, 1 June 2006 10:35:00 AM
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' ... refuses to apologise for equally horrific crimes committed by white Australians on their Aboriginal compatriots over two centuries...'

The only things inherited from our ancestors are genes (and sometimes money) - we do not inherit their behaviour, beliefs or morals, nor are we responsible for their actions.

The ancestors of some present-day Australians treated aboriginals badly, nobody would deny this fact - but to demand that Australians give a blanket 'apology' for crimes committed by some of our ancestors in the past, is clearly absurd.

My ancestors came to Sydney in the 1830s - they settled here and helped to build the city. They did not persecute or kill aboriginals, they did not remove aboriginal children from their families, nor did they push aboriginals off their land. They worked hard and their descendents are still doing so. The taxes provided by people like my family constitutes the income of most aboriginals.

After WWII, there were several waves of immigration - do these people and their descendents need to 'apologise' also? John Howard has acknowledged that aboriginals were mistreated in the past by some white settlers - why is he also required to say sorry on behalf of all Australians?

I am sorry that mistreatment of aboriginals occurred, if I could change the past, I would do so - but to 'apologise' for actions carried out by others in the past is meaningless.
Posted by dee, Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:10:06 PM
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Oh that word again.

On behalf on dead people for whom I have no authority to speak (and as correctly pointed out above, probably never saw or met an Aboriginal) to other dead people for whom you have no authority to accept for: "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry", "sorry".

There it's been said. Does it change anything? Do you feel more empowered? For goodness sake, get off this pinko touchy-feely word and actually do something. There is violence now that can be addressed. You can't change the past and 20 million "whities" are not going to walk back into the ocean.

"Get over it".
Posted by Narcissist, Thursday, 1 June 2006 1:48:00 PM
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Will 'sorry' help an aborigine child who has been raped? This incredidibly stupid political correctness has strangled all attempts to bring aboriginals in this century. This is the biggest crime that has been committed on these people. It is a crime of apartheid, a crime of neglect, all in the cause of a hideous leftist ideology that keeps cropping up in spite of all the plain common sense that is prevailing in the Australian population.
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 1 June 2006 3:21:35 PM
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And the first 4 posts here demonstrate how easy it is for Howard to get re-elected.

Why would he adopt a bipartisan / reconciliation spirit?

Barnes and Glenn, why are you asking for the impossible? Do you get off on writing this stuff?

White racial superiority is so entrenched into the psyche of Australians it is virtually impossible to select a point from which progressive discussion and synthesis can occur.

On the Right we have stoic adherence to racial hierarchical thinking 24/7. Read the recent sensationalist hyperbole in the Murdock press.

On the Left we have a limp defiance to this thinking but also patronage to doing nothing about reconciliation and race relations - beyond the media opportunities that present themselves.
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 1 June 2006 4:01:53 PM
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I wonder how many people who refuse to say "sorry", soley on the basis that they wern't personally responsible for the actions of others, puff their chests out with pride on ANZAC day?
Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 1 June 2006 4:43:47 PM
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Dear Ranier
you should know better by now mate...Barns and company latch onto 'issues' like 'Sorry' and like the political parasites they come across as, suck every bit of political life blood and points scoring out of the issue, with who knows how much real care for the people at either end of the issue itself.

Jesus said:
25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

I think so much of the political points scoring on the Indigenous issues kinda falls into that category. Perhaps a modern version of the above would include 'Political Opportunists'. ?

The "Sorry" thing has been politicized beyond redemption. Now, if those against cave in, they look weak, and the other mob will claim 'Victory'. "Triumphalism will triumph", and we will be no better off than before.

There is a far better way of saying sorry, -its an 'action'.

But what action ? will it be the same for each aboriginal tribe ? They don't all share the same specific history in relation to the whites.

I have little sympathy for the :

-Better health care
-Better and more Housing
-More funding
-Better education

mob.. because thats a 'white' and a 'political' solution to a cultural problem.

Better to build relationships with traditional elders, and through friendship build as far as possible strategies to restore dignity and self worth.

Perhaps then, the other things might have some meaning and impact
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 1 June 2006 5:39:51 PM
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Hi Ranier

Nice to see you contributing again.

I don’t think these blokes quite understand your annoyance.

But I don't quite see eye to eye with this

‘…it is virtually impossible to select a point from which progressive discussion and synthesis can occur’

There's an obvious starting point. Barnes and Glenn stated it but I don’t think they quite understood it.

It was this

…’that improving the well-being of Aboriginal Australians required symbolic redress, as well as practical measures.’

I know both you and I agree that a symbolic redress is essential. Where we probably and understandably might not quite see eye to eye is on the matter of an apology. I know I’m slanted in my view just as you probably are in yours on this particular matter. I think we both understand why we’ve arrived at a different conclusion. You know I think an apology inappropriate for most Australians. But I think the apology issue should be moved on from, simply because it hasn’t worked as it was intended, (Ahhh my bloody pragmatic mind again) and a quite different symbolic redress be fostered. One which I think that with adequate discussion and reasoned debate will become acceptable to all Australians. Even to those who hold unfortunately entrenched and out grown ideas. As you know, I think the vast majority don’t share a particular racist foible but are open to an idea that will engender a self respect and self-belief in indigenous people and their communities.

We do that all the time in our own communities.

Regards Keith

ps mate I’ve come to realise just how little I know. I’m finding my reading extensive and interesting.

Wobbles! Quite a few of those Australians of Japanese, German, Italian and Turkish descent and maybe even a few of Muslim belief, might have a reasonable problem. Not mentioning those of us whose forefathers opposed joining that war on the basis of their belief it was an English and European War.
I have never 'puffed up' on ANZAC day but I have always felt bound to honour the sacriface of those who suffered.
Posted by keith, Thursday, 1 June 2006 5:49:55 PM
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Sorry is always right. You have also taken a position based on justice and kindness not law and balanced accounts and fear.
Your point on distrust is so alarming and yet the PM would expect the Germans to apologize to the Jews. But why can't this distrust and feelings of constant inbred inferiority in our indigenous brothers and sisters be seen by the PM and other conservatives? Is there a kind of new wind of change and courage in the press and politics and business, or are we still, as Robert Manne suggested on ABC radio with Fran Kelly last week, still dead and powerless with a cancer drip fed by the master of the immoral distraction?
Posted by hatch, Thursday, 1 June 2006 6:33:17 PM
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Robert Mann also said, in response to a Fran Kelly susggestion that practical reconciliation is what we need, that pracitcal solutions for reconciliation are never all that is needed as reconciliation and rebuilding is a spiritual issue that must have symbol. The humility required to say sorry is made light of by more than one writer here on the subject. Distant from the situation, isolated in their towers of comfort, smug in their dismissiveness and unable to enact empathy with anybody, they remain the beneficiaries of a history of prosperity that has no interest in anything but their own egos and material acquisition.
Posted by hatch, Thursday, 1 June 2006 6:46:13 PM
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Hatch and Wobbles great posts! What I find striking is that people who tend to oppose saying sorry to Aboriginal Australian also tend to be proud patiots and rightly delight in Australian achievments.

But to be proud of one's nation necessarely implies taking pride in things done by past generations, being proud of a culture and values which have developed over generations. You cannot imagine a nation redifined anew with every new generation!

So why then all of a sudden when it is not about feeling good about actions performed by people dead ages ago but rather about taking responsibility for crimes committed by our ancestors we would to disown our past?

This is not about political correctedness, it is about proving we are a strong, mature nation which takes pride in its achievments but admits its crimes and remedies them to its best abilities
Posted by Schmuck, Thursday, 1 June 2006 7:57:45 PM
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keith's hit on the head re anzac day and honoring past acts.

the lack of will to be sorry is a sublime honoring of past atrocious acts.

the seeking of sorry is to honor the dead and victimised of those past atrocious acts.

rainer, deadly one!
Posted by kalalli, Friday, 2 June 2006 6:46:51 AM
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So, if Aboriginals have a deep mistrust of Europeans.
That is their problem to deal with.

I personally have a deep mistrust of government, since I know my personal interests are diluted when considered in competition with the interests of 20 million other Australians.

To any aboriginal or other person, I seriously suggest, don’t focus your life or “self-worth” on someone else saying “Sorry”.

By doing so, you are surrendering your independence to a “sop” of an idea which will do nothing for you in the long run.

Get over it and work at doing the best you can for yourself and your family. That way is the only way in which anyone will find the dignity and self-worth which you must be lacking
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 2 June 2006 2:01:52 PM
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Good on ya Keith! Lets catch again soon.

Col, yes self worth is the ultimate. You should also notice who is much more vocal about the need for Howard to say the 'S' word.

Its become part of the phoney Leftist political strategem.

When and if Indigenous leadership call for this to happen it will be at the right time and with the right polical and legal intentions.

Kalali, thanks bro.
Posted by Rainier, Saturday, 3 June 2006 3:07:57 PM
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History is written by the victor, history is constantly rewritten.
Read about the Hawksbury river region north of Sydney in the old times and you can see the most shameful and inhumane acts committed. The thing is, it wasnt one sided against the aborigines.
Why is it specified when registering a truck that if involved in an accident, dont say "sorry" but rather "are you OK" or "can I get Help". Indeed, if you say sorry the insurance company is not responsible any longer. The PM is no fool with regard to legal matters and obviously appreciates the danger of a taxpayer-funded class action.
Whats the answer? well we dont know, we just keep finding more not-the-answers.
I dont think any apology can fix the problems that exist these days, and the affirmative action pendulum is leading popular opinion towards a pseudoapartheid.
Posted by The all seeing omnipotent voice of reason, Saturday, 3 June 2006 5:58:19 PM
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There are obviously a few different slants here. One is the obvious - 'it wasn't me, so why should i say sorry'? Yet i bet, as a number of posters point out, the same people openly contradict themselves by taking pride in Australia's positives, getting the 'fuzzy feeling', and also not having a problem with other historical acts like Germany paying reparations for WW2 or even regarding the Jewish Holocaust industry (see book by Norman Finklestein).

The point is there is a need to acknowledge past wrongs, and consequently develop policies, in consultation with Indigenous communities, to essentially make some sort of difference. Yes, it is symbolic - that exactly the damn point!

Howards playing of this issue is an obvious disgrace. The constant suppression of any Indigenous political voice, and then the sparodic sensationalism of certain issues like we have seen in the past few weeks with Mal "just realised abuse was happening in central australian indigenous communities" Brough running around the countryside is something out nations leaders should be deeply ashamed off. But I do agree with Rainer, in that the Labour party, or any area of the Left, is certainly not jumping out with any plausible response. We can only really hope for some thought and proper evaluation of this isse, but we most probably will do so in vain
Posted by jkenno, Tuesday, 6 June 2006 6:47:15 PM
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While not obviously apparent to outsiders there is now a clear rift between Aboriginal leadership. On one side are those who see no solid position for historical causation and on the other those who see history as unfinished business.

The rise and rise of neo-con Aboriginal leaders over the last decade has been stridently supported by the Howard regime as a means to counter any attacks from the Left or those sections of the Labor Party that still adhere to socialism. (they could easily ride in a cab together).

Just as Condelina Rice and Colon Powell have neutered any critical inspection of the underlying race agenda of the Bush republic regime, so too has Howard's establishment given birth to his own versions of the same. They are no mandatory components of modern white liberal political cultures in the west.

The cultural wars have created confusion about the role of Rights in Aboriginal affairs and have had an even more devastating impact on grass roots communities who have traditionally relied on a leadership - that walked the talk and advocated the civil rights line on all issues.

Attacks by pseudo Leftists (Barnes and Glenn) on Howard for not saying Sorry is simply lazy, anally retentive, political analysis.
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 6 June 2006 8:18:41 PM
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These issues generate such aggressive responses on both sides. I liked keith's response as he is reconciling himself to his own ignorance about Aboriginal cultures and has been reading up. That's great! Truly, Aboriginal people have the same problem the other way round but have little written in their own languages to refer to.

I realised the extent of my own ignorance when I visited a fairly remote community last year. I went to find out more about the art and culture as I teach children Aboriginal art and felt I couldn't teach well without visiting the land and the artists.

I discovered a complex culture that is has almost completely opposing reference points to mine. I think part of the current problem arises from Aboriginal culture not being taught in Australian schools. The issues and our understanding of Aboriginal laws and attitudes would be so much clearer with some good education ititiatives. Profound differences such as the complex and cyclic nature of kinship - ie we are not a new generation each time but are inextricably linked to those who have gone before, is a major stumbling block, as is the comprehension of time - also cyclic whereas ours is linear. Our way of making friends is perceived as aggressive to many Aboriginal people and their way of making friends can be seen as unwelcoming/evasive to us. Eye contact and direct questioning makes many Aboriginal people feel uncomfortable...but those are "our" main reference points when meeting and finding out information.

"Our" ways are not right or wrong, but they are extremely different to theirs. In the community I tried to operate within their cultural expectations and was rewarded with acceptance, trust and generosity beyond my expectations. Saying sorry is more about us acknowledging that we have a lot to learn as it is about the idea of taking responsibility. Many of those who are posting on this issue need to read more and visit communities in a humble way so that they can really begin to understand where the misunderstandings lay and begin to negotiate appropriate solutions.
Posted by worldkitten, Wednesday, 7 June 2006 10:23:14 AM
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SORRY, its past that.
Can I have my ancestors land back instead?
Posted by ASH, Thursday, 8 June 2006 4:43:25 PM
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Sorry Ash, I didn't mean to offend you. If I had anything to do with it your land wouldn't have been taken in the first place. I am deeply ashamed of my own culture for the blind way in which it has stumbled around the planet laying claim to whatever it wants and doing what seems like a good idea at any given time. I don't know where your ancestor's lands are but I really hope you can reclaim them...but the realist in me doesn't think that will happen until the majority of Australians get past the ignorance they have about what it is to be Aboriginal, empathise with your situation and respect your culture for what it is instead of what they think it is.
Posted by worldkitten, Friday, 9 June 2006 2:16:26 AM
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Whitekitten,
I have no argument which much of what you say,but I differ to you on the worth & consequences of an apology.

If you read the news stories pre-Mabo, you will see that the spin-doctors were telling us it would be a panacea for all Aborginal woes- we now know it was not the case.
Then we had 'Abroginal Deaths In Custody' (which as it turned out was based on a false premise) which was supposed to heal a lot of woes –but only fuelled the hate-blame-game.

'The Stolen Generations' 'An Apology'& the call for 'A Treaty' are just the latest blockbusters from the same producers.

I hope you will understand, if this time around, some of us are a little cynical.

All an apology is likely to do is trigger a chain of compensation claims which will largely go the line the pockets of ravenous lawyers & officialdom –and do little to improve the overall plight of Aborigines.
Posted by Horus, Friday, 9 June 2006 6:24:06 AM
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Horus identifies an important phenonomen in Aboriginal affairs that has been around since Invasion - I call it white moral panic solutions, others such as the anthropologist W E Stannner called it the 'disremembering' on a national scale.

Look back through the public debates of Mabo, the Stolen Generations reports, the Black Deaths in Custody Royal Commission and you will see very open attacks on the "credibility" of Aboriginal people and Aboriginality. Some common themes in these question of credibility were;

Mabo: They are not traditional people
RCIADC: They all suicided
Children stolen: It was for their own good

And now we get accused of wanting an Apology for monetary gains?

Its time for a Treaty that resolves once and for all the legal, political and economic status of invaders and the status of the colonised. Cook’s orders were to negotiate occupation with the native inhabitants. These orders remain ignored in Australian law.
Posted by Rainier, Friday, 9 June 2006 9:00:28 AM
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Rainer employs a typical tactic-act offended -make a lot of noise & hopefully the threat will be intimated & withdraw.

"And now we get accused of wanting an Apology for monetary gains?"
(Perish the thought! )
Of course we know the Aborigines exist on a higher spiritual plain -though I must say -as with humans of all colours or creeds, I have not seen many knock back monetary benefits when they are available.

Rainer let me ask you a question, since you seem to have assumed authority to speak for all Aboriginal peoples. Can you say categorically that no group if given an apology would then not want “compensation” –and even if they didn’t initially- would they be able to resist the manipulating manoeuvrings of self seeking lawyers & officialdom to go further?

As for ‘the public debates on Mabo”. It would be a travesty to call the noise that surrounding the implementation of Mabo ‘a debate’ .The whole episode was more akin to Moses coming down from the Mt Sinai and handing the Israelites the ten commandments- it was signed sealed & delivered, realistically, the ordinary Australian had as much chance of altering the outcome as the Israelites had of amending aspects of the ten commandments.

And "a Treaty that resolves once and for all the legal, political & economic status of invaders and of the colonized." is another furphy.
We already had "the status" resolved, long ago .
We are all Australian citizens. We all have equal rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES under a national law.The difference is that equal (OR BETTER) input has not, up to the present, produced equal outcomes.
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:26:20 AM
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"Equality" is a difficult word to use - many people consider that if you treat everyone the same then that will make everyone equal. Surely the debate should be about giving everyone an equal opportunity to succeed in life. For some this means they need different treatment to enable them to have equal access to those opportunities in the first place.

From what I have seen and read over the last couple of years the idea of equality for Aboriginal people in Australian law, education and health seems like an oxymoron. We learn about law, like culture, through interactions in our families, school, in society and through the media. In mainstream Australia it is all in coded behaviours and all in English and a lot of it in pretty complicated English at that. Reading "Why Warriors Lay Down and Die" - a brilliantly accessible book for people like me; a lay person - pointed out that whilst Urbanised indigenous people might be more likely to pick up information about laws, rights and responsibilities in Australian law, those living in more remote communities, those who live outside of "mainstream" society and may speak 10 of their own languages before they get to English are outside of this loop.

There are many cases where the systems of law and health have failed them because they are linguistically inaccessible. I have heard some say "well why don't they learn English then?!" which is a mad arguement as they are living on their own land and surely should be able to expect that laws be translated into their own languages so that they can at least interact with them. Doesn't there need to be a level playing field first where everyone understands not only the rights and responsibilities that are expected of citizens in modern Australian society but also those that can be expected of the government. The comment about Cook ignoring his own responsibility to "negotiate"settlement was highly relevant. Rights and responsibilities exist on all sides.
Posted by worldkitten, Saturday, 10 June 2006 5:04:23 AM
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wHore-us, I'm just expressing my opinion, not speaking for all. Why do you accuse me of this? Or is it because your condescending views are being questioned by me that you feel obliged to make a quantum leap and declare me every black voice in the room when I am just one of possibly a few? Puleeeze! Get a grip mate.

As for the treaty issue it’s not furphy and anyone with knowledge of legal history will tell you that the matter remains unresolved. I don’t have the time or inclination to re-educate you on this here. You’ll just have to take my word for it. Alternatively if you want to become a more informed Australian citizen – head to your nearest library and do some basic research. You’ll find that you'll have to read more broadly than the bible and analogies about isrealites.

In a nutshell, we did not cede, nor was it declared conquered and no-one asked me or my family prior to the 1967 referendum if I wanted to be a citizen of this colonial nation.
Posted by Rainier, Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:31:08 PM
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Rainier,

“Puleeeze! Get a grip mate.”
I think the problem with you Rainier is you’ve had a “grip of yourself” for too long.
I implore you to let go –lest you go even blinder than you are already.

“no-one asked me or my family prior to the 1967 referendum if I wanted to be a citizen of this colonial nation.”
-No one asked the thousands of convicts if they wanted to be citizens either. &
-No one asked the thousands of British children “stolen” and shipped here after WW2 either.
But they were big enough to move-on.

And I note that your heart felt objections to the white ‘invasion & occupation’ has not stopped you sharing in the spoils (i.e. internet & libraries etc).
Now even if you argue part of it belonged to your family/tribe, it’s a certainty the major portion came from other owners.
Rainier, what is the term for someone who shares in the spoils of a crime?

Worldkitten,
Anyone who lives in rural Australia can tell you that many services urban Australians take for granted are not available in the bush & the further you go out, the worse it gets.

I don’t think it’s a case so much that the INPUT of services available to Aborigines is less than those available to other Australians in comparable situations, rather the issue is that the OUTCOME has been substandard.

And I’m a little surprised that you seem to pass over urban aborigines because from my standing, despite their generally higher English language skills, they seem to be one of the areas of most need.

Perhaps we are never going to get equal outcomes –though I agree a lot can be done to narrow the gap -but I believe it can be done without playing the hate-blame game.
Posted by Horus, Saturday, 10 June 2006 8:21:48 PM
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wHorus, people like you are a dime a dozen in my world,
So guess what big boy, there's nothing original in your comments or suggestions Or in being a benign/closet/cowardly racist - I've heard and read these types of comments all my life. Yawn.
Posted by Rainier, Sunday, 11 June 2006 3:39:43 PM
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To Rainier,
I'm not for sales at any price!
And I'm not really concerned whether my views are original or not (we all stand on someone else’s shoulders)
Have a nice day!
Posted by Horus, Monday, 12 June 2006 7:40:24 AM
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To Rainier:
Further to the above:

We are all stand on someone else’s shoulders.

It's just that the person whose shoulders you are standing on Rainier, is so much shorter than those the rest of us are standing on!
Posted by Horus, Monday, 12 June 2006 9:07:40 AM
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Rainier - I am truly sorry to have offended you - it is so difficult on e-mail to get someone to read words with the intonation with which they have been written - possibly the limit on the word count also made my comments seem aggressive. Please read the following in a gentle calm way as that is the person I am and that is how I am writing my response to you. I am not an Australian citizen, just an interested party who supports Aboriginal rights and works for eniar (european network for indigenous australian rights) in England raising awareness and getting the debate talked about over here. The rest of the world is enormously ignorant as to the reality of the situation for Aboriginal people...even those who go over to Australia for their gap year come back none the wiser for their trip. Awareness comes first. I have spent my own time and money coming over and meeting Yolngu people just so that I can learn more first hand and pass on what I understand to less aware people whereever I meet them. I haven't met any urban Aboriginal people which is why I didn't talk about them or their situation. And I have to say that I am sad that you don't want to educate me on the holes that exist in my knowledge as there are very few other places where i can go for first hand information. I realise that it must be hugely irritating for you to come up against ignorance like mine and have to be always putting us right but that is the only way in which we will learn about the situation from your point of view and that is what most of us non aboriginals really need.
Posted by worldkitten, Monday, 12 June 2006 5:32:24 PM
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..It makes me sad also that the debate here seems to have become an aggressive stand-off now between horus and yourself which makes it really difficult for me to keep reading/posting/learning. I do stress that am not blaming you for this, it seems to be what happens much of the time with this debate. But it does stop me wanting to continue and to find another way to get my information. I am one of the few who is working for the Aboriginal people overseas. I am culturally British and I struggle to see past that and sometimes I fail but I am trying, and when I learn important lessons i teach others. I do not see you as speaking for all Aboriginal people and I realise that your story is your story and not the story of all aboriginal people, but you are the only indigenous person writing on this site so you are the only reference point in this situation. I have valued your comments, even the angry ones as it just serves to remind me how deeply felt are the scars from the past and how easily people can feel condescended to. I am not knowlingly being condescending, just inquisitive. I want to know if my views are acceptable, realistic, accurate and the only way I can find out is to express them. Better that I find out and change them if they are wrong. But I am not going to know how to change them if someone doesn't tell me. Simply making someone angry is not going to help me understand the issues. I need open, honest debate where the respect I give others is also given to me. That way we all learn something. I really hope we can get this debate back onto an even keel. I am sorry again that I offended you.
Posted by worldkitten, Monday, 12 June 2006 5:42:14 PM
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