PK... I was not 'copping out' I was merely observing reality.

Your plea to think of our modern condition where we are "supposed" to be guided by a respect for human life... well.. its just plain optimistic in a kind of "gee I wish" type of thing.

It seems to me that your longing for the 'respect for human life' value is based and founded on the relative peace and security we have enjoyed since Vietnam. How long ago was that ? hmmm yep.. around 30 yrs. Not exactly a period out of the ordinary where peace has reigned. Its more a punctuation mark in the struggle for resources by competing humans.

Look at East Timur.. do you class these people as 'savages' needing to be enlightened by the UN declaration on human rights, or the latest Humanist buzz words ? Don't u know, or realize that if we had a similarly proportioned population, with various ethnic groups, and religions, we would be exactly the same as they are. Fighting it out in the political arena and if that doesn't work, in the streets.

Not that such is my cup of tea, but it is the sad reality of life AND human nature (except you of course.. ur nice :)

My parting comment about 'Think of Jesus' was deeper than you apparently tweaked to. Our peacefulness is in my opinion based on the value of human life inherited FROM His teaching. "The meek shall inherit the earth.. blessed are the peacemakers" etc etc.
Paul said "As far as it depends on you, live at peace with all men"

James says "1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures"

That sums up East Timor, and the world.

Stateless terrorism is an excuse to attack soveriegn state.

Fundamental Islam is Islam hijacked to justify terrorism and fascism.

Installing Democracy is invasion to secure oil.

Western Christianity has been hijacked to justify racism, cultural supremacism, invasion of sovereign states and fascism.

Terrorism is living in a soveriegn state that the US is invading (to secure oil and establish a launching pad to attack other Arab states(to secure oil and impose democracy).

Prowling US car parks, colleges to sucker 18 year-old as meat for murdering is predatory and Bush's crime against his own people. The US government has, according to Anti-Flag, accessed the student's results and targetted the students who are not performing. Low.

Boaz. Think about Jesus. Well duh! The most violent he got was tipping a few tables. The market place thing. He never advocated terrorism or warfare. He never invaded or fought over territory. He wasn't physically big or strong and didn't form an army to impose His will. He gathered honourable men together and engaged in stateless listening, kindness and teaching.

From Salamn Rushdies Satanic Verses:

"Any new idea, Mahound, is asked two questions:

The first is asked when it is weak: WHAT KIND OF AN IDEA ARE YOU?
Are you the kind that compromises, does deals, accommadates itself to society, aims to find a niche, to survive; or are you the cussed, bloody-minded, ramrod backed type of damnfool notion that would rather break than sway with the breeze? - The kind that will almost ceertainly, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, be smashed to bits; but the hundreth time, will change the world."

"What's the second question?" Gibreel asked aloud.

"Answer the first."
END.
Jesus' "idea" of the True way was not couched in violence and physical strength.

Boaz:
Ephesians Chapter 1, Verse 18.

Allo allo alloooo .... SOMEone has been reading his Bible :) fantastic !

"18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

Ranc.. and my prayer for you and all here...is that all will (if not already) know that same hope ...

You are quite right.. that is an appropriate verse for me and for all of us. Our eyes are continually being 'scaled over' by the old flesh, and constantly need the refreshing eye surgery from Dr Jesus.

But think about the rest that Paul said..

-"The Glorious Inheritance"
-"The HOPE to which He has called us".

Yes.. amen and amen ! When mankind- communities, migrants, assylum seekers, indigenous people, white settlers come to know that inheritance, to know that Lord, there will not be any need for me referring to any other 'framework' than that of the Kingdom of God.

The only thing left will be to 'stir one another up to good works' in Christ.

But as it was in our Lords earthly days, so it is now, there is an Emporer, (the state) and there are threats, and it is the work of the State to maintain harmony and safety. Just as Caesar did many things which were ungodly, and hurtful to the embryonic fellowship of the saints, so those like Bush and Blair and others will make their own kinds of mistakes.

Nations and tribes will be warring, struggling yet in the midst of all this, we can have a glorious peace at an individual and group fellowship level. Only in Christ do the points of difference, culture, race, language etc become dim enough for people to become a new humanity who's citizenship is in heaven.

BD I can't let your latest piece of hypocrisy go by.

You state "Only in Christ do the points of difference, culture, race, language etc become dim enough for people to become a new humanity who's citizenship is in heaven."

So just when are YOU going to start practising christianity? Maybe you could make a start by ceasing from vilifying Muslims? Ask yourself, would JC have called Islam evil the way you do?

BTW Your understanding of JC's teachings are only exceeded by your lack of knowledge about biology. There are plenty of examples where females are either equal to (wolf packs) or stronger than males (hyenas). As for the insect kingdom - chicks rule. Your tendency to generalise frequently undermines any modicum of credibility your posts may hold.

However, for a start I would respect you a little more if you actually practised what you preached to the rest of us.

As for topic - we live in a climate of artificially generated fear - an example of that is the fear mongering of ALL muslims that is swallowed by the gullible such as Boaz David.

Men (generally speaking) respond to real or percieved agression more violently than women - but that is hardly set in concrete. After all, women haven't had much in the way of power to wield it either for peace or war. Quite frankly, I believe that the more active in public life women become the more likely they will exhibit aggression just as much as men.

Scout, I agree with your post. Perhaps women, if given more leadership opportunities, will exhibit a similar level of warlike tendencies as shown in the history of male leadership. If so, that may be because women will have to play by male-dominated rules. We are a very long way off seeing a genuine gender balance within power structures that would give us an opportunity to analyse that. For the moment though, war and violence is a male thing.

Thanks for putting B-D right. He is so tiresome I can no longer be bothered with any detailed response to his glib preaching.

Well well... welcome back Scout, haven't seen u for a bit.
PK.. in good form also :)

Actually, my post was mainly to Rancitas.

But you speak of hypocrisy Scout. Am I Robinson Crusoe there ? Do you ever express sentiments but fall short of them yourself ? No need to answer :)

On the males females thing.. that is so silly to try to put forward a position for female physical dominance I won't bother trying to defend my previous remarks. (bugs ? *shakes head*)

You keep on missing the point, and somehow finding a Jesus who fits your desire to 'beat me up with', rather than the one in Scripture.
While you are quite rightfully making negative comparisons between myself and the Lord, please try to understand that He did actually criticize and berate certain classes of people. Those he most seriously berated were they who where leading people astray from true faith in God, by their human constructions. (Pharisees,Scribes, Saducees) and those who used the Law for manipulation and profit from the less learned (Lawyers).

Then, there were a few towns where He had clearly demonstrated His own Kingly/Messianic credentials (such as most on OLO could only wish for) yet they persisted stubbornly in their unbelief.

"If the works done in your had been done in Sodom, they would have repented" is about as heavy and from the hip as it gets.

You were a bit off the mark in claiming I 'Vilify Muslims' unless you mean by that, that I am vilifying them as a class, by exposing the falsehood and carnality in the fundamental history of its prophet ?

I see it differently. Awareness of falsehood is the first step toward truth ..no ?

I hope both you and PK will devote as much attention to discovering the real Jesus as Rancitas has clearly shown in his finding a verse he feels I would benefit from (as indeed I did).